The harder the faithful argue against the not-so-new atheism, the plainer it becomes that their apologetics are mere question-begging. Consider John Haught. In an interview of modest length, he manages to pack in all the immodest errors of the hedged-bet, Pascalian, mainline-Protestant, middle-of-the-road theology that he (and many others) hold with such vanity to be the solution to the cavorting bands of radical materialists on one side and apocalyptic messianists on the other: the misreading of major continental philosophers; the habit of using the word nihilism with the same precision as an East German techno-grunge band; the habit of either over- or understating the epistemological claims of the scientific method as is convenient to his argument; the inexorable tendency to claim that while on the one hand, "scientific" knowledge not only can be but must be evaluated on terms external to itself, namely religious terms, religious experience and the unsubstantiable knowledge claimed by theistic systems about the physical and moral nature of the universe are whole to themselves and cannot be subject to such radical scientismical challenges as, "Prove it."
Most of the interview is pablum. It rehashes the old claim that science is insufficient to give us "meaning" and "hope," or else that it can give us meaning and hope, but it cannot "justify" our holding meaning and hope. You can see that Haught is a moving target--fortunately, a slow-moving one. The question of "meaning" is a hoary old diversion. Without defining what meaning is, religion claims that since science can't provide it, ergo God. Haught goes further, bundles meaning and hope into "purpose," and says rather grandly that since science can't offer an answer to this frankly ineffable question, faith takes the day. By faith he means only Western monotheism, by the way. Ask a Hindu, a Buddhist, or a man on the path of the Tao about his purpose and you will get something equally ineffable in reply. Atheists, scientific or otherwise, likewise find the emphasis on purpose odd. To quote the unfortunately effable drummer Neal Peart: "Why are we here? Because we're here." This sort of answer makes Western religionists uncomfortable because it doesn't accord them a privileged position in creation. All of the questions about purposefulness and consciousness that they raise; all of their insistence on the immaterial nature of the mind and the conscience; all of their objections about mechanistic explanations; these ultimately boil down to the last trench in their long battle to maintain a cosmology centered on man. Privileging human consciousness as uniquely unfit for natural inquiry is finally a bulwark against the idea that we are incidental to the universe: geographically, cosmologically, biologically, purposefully.
Haught would call this nihilism, which is really his way of saying that his own mind is too impoverished to imagine a moral order without external justification. In a word, authoritarian. In the absence of third-party validation, he can't accept any action or thought as virtuous. But, as I said before, this position itself, in his construction, requires no validation in turn. It just is. All objections to it, by origin of their externality, are necessarily small, mean, false. Meanwhile, he writes:
They [atheists] miss the moral core of Judaism and Christianity -- the theme of social justice, which takes those who are marginalized and brings them to the center of society.It is deeply debatable whether the central moral precepts of Judaism fulfill this formulation, firstly. But even if they did, let's throw down a gauntlet: Show me one example of a society in the history of Christendom in which the "marginalized" have been routinely brought "to the center of society." During the Barbarian migrations? The Carolingian renaissance? The Dark ages? High feudalism? The Age of Discovery? The Renaissance? The Enlightenment? Post-Enlightenment Europe? The 20th Century? When? Never is when. The moral imperatives that Christianity claims as its central concerns have never actually been effectuated within Christian society. How is that for purpose? Meaning? Hope?
21 comments:
But the apes, IOZ. What about the apes?
all in all, a rather brilliant piece, but when you say: 'In the absence of third-party validation, he can't accept any action or thought as virtuous.' i can't help but wonder how you can so swiftly apply the word 'virtuous' even as you call attention to the vacuousness of the word 'meaning'. science also can't "prove" virtue (ergo god?). such moralisms are imprecise, and are often laid over the foundations of the very religious structures you reject.
That's a good note, uticas. I actually have a specific meaning in mind. I'll elaborate on that in a future post on the subject. Emerson elaborated on the idea of individual virtue, and that's a starting point for me.
Shall we call it the War on Bellicosity?
"takes those who are marginalized and brings them to the center of society"
Maybe I'm just dense, but the fact is I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Bring the poor and insane in for milk and cookies?
Regarding morality, it's likely a cognitive outgrowth of social instinct. Morality is there because it allows a group of social animals like homo sapiens live together effectively. The idea that it requires a God and hierarchy of followers to enforce it is simply, as you said, a manifestation of authoritarian thought.
The moral imperatives that Christianity claims as its central concerns have never actually been effectuated within Christian society. How is that for purpose? Meaning? Hope?
Reminds me of a Norman Mailer interview I recently stumbled across. He pointed out that Western/Christian societies have never actually done all that well with the compassion to which they pay so much lip service, while Islamic cultures haven't exactly lived up to the doctrine that all Muslims are equal before Allah. According to Mailer, this warps both cultures warped at their core, and makes another century-long conflict between them likely. I don't know sensible it is to psychoanalyze cultures, but there's sure no shortage of nutjobs on both sides, ready to have at it. Meanwhile, you don't see many Buddhists salivating for the Rapture.
-- sglover
Meanwhile, you don't see many Buddhists salivating for the Rapture.
I think that part of the reason is that buddhism is transendental rather than monotheistic. Whereas islam and christianity are a kind of wierd schitziod mix of the two styles.
Buddhists have different wacky ideas than Christian Dispensationalists, that's all.
Ioz, the best book on Christianity I've ever read by a Christian is The Cost of Authority: Manipulation and Freedom in the New Testament, by Graham Shaw. One of the things I love about it is the way Shaw dissects the ways that people try to manipulate others into doing what they want; though Shaw is not only a Christian but a clergyman, the book is atheist in its approach, analyzing early Christian belief without giving a god the credit or the blame.
At some point Shaw quotes Chesterton's (?) quip that the only trouble with Christianity is that it has never been tried. Shaw counters that if true, this statement is an indictment of Christianity, not an exculpation. If Christianity has never been tried in nearly 2000 years, something is wrong. Your final paragraph reminded me of that.
"Buddhists have different wacky ideas than Christian Dispensationalists, that's all."
Care to give an example?
What you say is true, but in the past 30 years or so, the Catholic Church has been anti-war, anti-poverty and anti-torture. Pope John Paul II spoke out against war, the death penalty and torture. And he advocated for the poor and told the rich not to be so selfish. He urged the rich to be charitable, which they still aren't, even the Christian rich people. He urged world governments not to manufacture and distribute weapons, conventional and unconventional. Pope Benedict recently refused to meet with Condoleeza Rich, though he did meet with Bush earlier. They had a private meeting, and Benedict no doubt told Bush to stop making war and to stop torturing.
That said, the fundamentalist and evangelical Protestant preachers have been pro-war and pro-torture. They support the government and its mission to do all in its power to help the rich and privileged and their corporations at the expense of the poor and middle class.
one minor quip dietrick:
equating the poor and the insane...all is not well with that dear friend
Mediocre truths are made for mediocre minds. The "English mechanistict doltification" of the universe continues apace. How plebeian.
I don't think there have been any plebs in England for quite some time.
"East German techno-grunge"? Surely any cultured person knows that grunge is a garage-punk (like Iggy and the Stooges) inspired style from the pacific northwest having nothing to do with techno or Germany.
anonymous asked if I'd care to give an example of wacky Buddhist ideas. Well, you might look at a little book called "Abortion, Sin and the State in Thailand," by Andrea Whittaker, published by Routledge in 2004. It shows that Buddhists, both laity and clergy, can be as nucking futs as Christians. And why not? Wackiness is part of our heritage as homo sapiens.
I think I've also heard of wacky apocalyptic/millennialist sects arising in Buddhist societies, but I could be wrong. I know much less about Buddhism than I wish I did.
Promiscuous,
Yeah, sure you can get some whackos.
On the whole, buddist/taoist philosophies are wholly empirical and completely shun metaphysical bullshit.
Check out a great book called "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra.
Little dense at parts, but I thought quite great.
Also, Buddism Plain and Simple by Steve Hagen if you want to educate yourself on the basic philosophical tenants.
I trust Razib on buddhism because Razib is the man.
anonymous, Buddhism and Taoism are not the same thing. The fact that you're running them together like that doesn't inspire confidence in your account of things. So "The Tao of Physics," which I have on my shelf but haven't gotten to, is not going to shed any light on Buddhism, even in principle.
I already know the basic philosophical tenets of Buddhism; I've read more on the subject than I seem to have implied, but I don't know that much about how the theory is expressed in practice. It's like to trying to understand Christianity simply by reading the gospels or the rest of the New Testament: you also have to know the later history, etc. You can reduce Christianity to a philosophy too, if you read only Aquinas, Maritain, Tillich, and people like that while ignoring its aspects as a popular religion and an ancient institution.
I also know that tradition says that the Buddha didn't want to create an order of Buddhist nuns, only gave in because one of his male disciples insisted, and then griped that the ordaining wimmin would plumb ruin everything. So ol' Gautama was about as big a misogynist as some of the Christian Fathers, not all that "empirical" after all.
tggp, Razib looks like he could be amusing; I'll take a closer look when I can. But I don't trust anyone's account of Buddhism, or Christianity, or feminism, or any other great human system, because no one person gets it all.
"anonymous, Buddhism and Taoism are not the same thing. The fact that you're running them together like that doesn't inspire confidence in your account of things. So "The Tao of Physics," which I have on my shelf but haven't gotten to, is not going to shed any light on Buddhism, even in principle."
READ THE BOOK....MMMKAY?
It explicitly discusses buddhism, and the overlaps are very close
"
I already know the basic philosophical tenets of Buddhism; I've read more on the subject than I seem to have implied, but I don't know that much about how the theory is expressed in practice. It's like to trying to understand Christianity simply by reading the gospels or the rest of the New Testament: you also have to know the later history, etc. You can reduce Christianity to a philosophy too, if you read only Aquinas, Maritain, Tillich, and people like that while ignoring its aspects as a popular religion and an ancient institution."
Total bullshit. There is nothing in the buddhist writings that is metaphysical. Not so of Christianity. So, yeah, you can then just take on the later exponents, but that is to ignore the roots.
"
I also know that tradition says that the Buddha didn't want to create an order of Buddhist nuns, only gave in because one of his male disciples insisted, and then griped that the ordaining wimmin would plumb ruin everything. So ol' Gautama was about as big a misogynist as some of the Christian Fathers, not all that "empirical" after all."
I'm not going to pretend to know the reasons behind this, although I know you are correct. You also cite no further explanation for why he advocated this stance...
Also, I DO get it all
anonymous, I didn't say "metaphysics." I know that Gotama rejected such topics. I said "philosophy."
Nor did I say to "ignore the roots"; I said that you have to look at both the roots and the branches, and (to borrow a Christian image) the fruits. Your arrows of fire, O grasshopper, are missing the target.
I've read the Dhammapada. Gotama said some good things that I agree with. As to why he didn't want to start an order of nuns, I don't know; the quotations I've seen don't show him giving any. He was just enlightened, dewd, y'know, so he like totally knew that letting wimmin in would be a bad thing.
Sorry, I'm not going to get to The Tao of Physics anytime soon. I have a copy on my groaning shelves, along with The Way Of the Peaceful Warrior and any number of other recommended works on "spirituality." But I have a long list of other books that seem more pressing to read first. For that matter, I'd want to read the Buddhist scriptures before I'd read The Tao of Physics -- something you said back there about the "roots"?
Anyone who claims to "get it all" is lying. "He who talks about it does not know, he who knows doesn't talk about it." Or something like that.
The comment about me getting it all was a joke...
Point is this: the philosophies espoused by buddhism are not metaphysical, dogmatic, or followed as doctrine. They are merely guides for staying in the moment and being mindful. That is all.
Abrahamic religion on the other hand...
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