Wednesday, January 02, 2008

Suckas

American liberals like Ezra Klein are totally unable to understand why Ron Paul is always talking about taxes and monetary policy and the scope of government when, in their minds, the only thing he could possibly be saying that would attract attention and support is that he's going to end the occupation of Iraq. That's because American liberals understand the invasion and occupation as a terribly aberrant, uniquely un-American act foisted on a frightened country and unprepared world by the avatar of awfulness, notre dauphin, Gee-Dub Bush. Their liberalism is essentially personality-driven--ironically, given their loud disdain for the Bushite personality cult. It is the liberal-progressive conviction that the necessary component for good government is good people. People, you know, like them. Young progs like Klein are the worst in this regard because they've never had real jobs and have therefore missed out on the practical education that most of us get in the futility of good intentions and decent management against the systemic corruption of all large institutions. The young Democrats' faith in electoralism and disdain for any generalized critique of the American state is based on the faulty idea that if only the right people were running the policy apparatus, then the power of government would be used for good and we would only invade countries when, you know, it was really important. They are naturally immune to the idea that good managers cannot buck institutional imperatives, putting their trust, as they do, in people power and, lord help us, the "democratic process." They are interested in "good government," not "limited government," and the argument that all governments seek inevitably and inexorably to expand their own power is impossible for them to grasp, because, after all, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, QED.

People like Ron Paul confound them by insisting that horrors like the Iraq invasion and occupation are necessitated by the system itself. Foreign aggression is endemic to powerful nations and empires, and the United States is surely the former and--can anyone dispute this anymore?--surely the latter as well. And from such ideas comes the general libertarian critique of government: that if you empower the government to do something, it's going to do it. If you empower the government to collect information on its citizens, it isn't only going to collect the minimum necessary to pay a social security stipend. It is going to collect as much as possible. If you create and fund a vast military establishment, the state is going to employ it. Why do we have this magnificent army, Madeline Albright notoriously mused, if we're not going to use it? The libertarian says neither ask what you can do for your country nor what your country can do for you. He says instead: How can we most effectively circumscribe the power of government so as to prevent the very possibility of invading Iraq, of setting up a ubiquitous surveillance state, of deciding to use eminent domain to subsidize strip mall develoment, and so forth and so on. The libertarian doesn't believe that so long as you're careful and make sure that good people are strolling the Aaron Sorkinian halls of power, snapping dialogue here and there, then all will be well. He does not share the Progressive's Soviet confidence in the power of good management and planning.

But even the libertarian position has at its core the flawed idea that state power can be constitutionally constrained, that if we write it down and enforce it vigilantly, the state can be confined to a limited sphere of acceptable action that will secure life and liberty and property and a few other basic rights. Yet in order to achieve even these limited ends, the libertarian concedes that the state must at least be granted a minimal monopoly on the use of force, and in particular the use of deadly force, and in that exchange he gives up everything in return for nothing, for the moment he hands the gun to the policeman and says, "Protect me from thieves," he has handed the state the mechanism through which it will go on to invalidate all its bargains and charters with its citizens.

48 comments:

tedthejackal said...

"Yet in order to achieve even these limited ends, the libertarian concedes that the state must at least be granted a minimal monopoly on the use of force, and in particular the use of deadly force, and in that exchange he gives up everything in return for nothing"

Check your facts. The armed wing of the libertarian movement has made no such concession.

IOZ said...

My facts. Um.

The armed wing of the libertarian movement might style itself as revolutionary, but it still proposes replacing the state with a state. What is the 2nd amendment but a sub-licensing agreement?

TGGP said...

What about anarchist libertarians? A lot of them still call themselves libertarians, and I'm willing to grant them the label.

IOZ said...

I'm willing to grant very, very wide latitude on the label, but libertarians must at least embrace some minarchical principles to qualify on my damned and damning webisphere.

I mean, Christ, I already have enough trouble with the donk/pwog/dem/lib angle.

Ashley said...

Their liberalism is essentially personality-driven…

This is a good observation though an old one. It was part of the original definition of Fascism and part of why some argue there was only ever one government which truly qualified and why, to this day, older citizens waiting at the terminals of that country still sometimes mutter "When HE was here the trains ran on time." FDR was a great admirer of that man and his government. Qui, Quo, Qua.

[This is in no way meant to be a measure of support for any books currently authored by any pudding-brained Neocons.]

Aaron said...

1) Since the oppression of "the state" is inevitable, and it therefore must be opposed/done away with, how do we do stuff like keeping the roads bridges and waterways navigable, make sure people don't starve in large numbers, control spread of infectious disease, and other big-ticket items?

2) Since people are hierarchical primates, without a (liberal) state isn't it likely that some individual will step into the power vaccuum with sdlightly different, but perhaps similarly oppressive results? What if we find that "the state" is just a kind of human social development related to communications technology and other kinds of cultural artifacts?

3) What are you calling "the state"? Is it the way of executing "public policy" that developed in Europe in the 16th century? Is it the Napoleonic expert-government nexus? Weberian bureaucracy? Is it any large cluster of government institutions at all? Was the Roman empire a state? If so, can it really be done away with?

Maybe it will just wither away...

word up! said...

"the armed wing of the libertarian movement". What a fucking joke. I've hung out with part of this "wing" in Kentucky for a few weeks and I assure you that they are a bunch of bored angry white men scared shitless that the UN is going to take away "their" country.

I'd love to see what the armed wing of the libertarian party would ever do with those arms. What the hell are they waiting for anyways.

Ashley said...

make sure people don't starve in large numbers

Just a clarification on that one since there is no fuzziness or slip to that slope. *Every* major famine in the last 100 years, to the tune of at least 75 million dead, maybe 3x more depending on whose numbers you like, was exacerbated or directly caused by a government.

scott said...

IOZ:

I understand the points you make about the corruptions of power and the ability to use force, but what's the answer? How DO we, or SHOULD we, act collectively to deal with problems that confront us either here or abroad? I'm actually not snarking, just asking.

Anonymous said...

"Armed wing of the libertarian movement" isn't to imply organized or under represented in the hills and trailer parks, and it isn't to imply a coherent or desirable alternative to rational and limited government, wherever that happens, but the reality stands that only potential check on government encroachment other than the vaunted vote is the rifled barrel. And in America there are more guns owned than votes cast.

tedthejackal said...

"Armed wing of the libertarian movement" isn't to imply organized or under represented in the hills and trailer parks, and it isn't to imply a coherent or desirable alternative to rational and limited government, wherever that happens, but the reality stands that only potential check on government encroachment other than the vaunted vote is the rifled barrel. And in America there are more guns owned than votes cast.

Anonymous said...

Scott, you tit, how long have you been reading this blog?

WHAT SHOULD WE DO IOZ? TELL US WHEN TO BREATHE IN AND OUT, IOZ!

Anonymous said...

Additionally, the idea that a bunch of hicks with sawed-offs will ever present a legit threat to the government of the United States of America as it stands now is so laughable as to merit severe mockery of anyone who mentions it as something to take into account. Bunch of Ethan Allen-with-meth-addiction motherfuckers are gonna outmaneuver the US government, who have time and again shown the only time they can effectively flex their military/police muscles anymore is at home (see also: Waco, Ruby Ridge).

word up! said...

"the only potential check on government encroachment other than the vaunted vote is the rifled barrel. And in America there are more guns owned than votes cast."

And yet this government's encroachments still go unchecked. I think it's about time for all those millions of 22s to come out from their hiding spots under the bed and into the streets.

Aaron said...

Ashley--
Yep. On the other hand, it's unclear how many people starved before there were states or where states are really weak because they generally supply the numbers. And lots of states actually do it pretty effectively. Is that despite their "stateness" or because they're better at it? I guess the question I'm asking is more along the lines of whether anything set up to deal with perennial problems like redistribution wouldn't be "statelike" given current population levels, communications media, levels of integration etcetera. The Catholic Church, for example, is sometimes called a "papal monarchy" by historians precisely in part because it came to serve these functions.

word up! said...

Anonymous,

It seems you've hung out with the same dudes I did.--Minus the ethan allen part.

tedthejackal said...

If you think the machine isn't concerned about "hicks with sawed-offs", tell me how many gun laws they've passed lately. Just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they'll use it or use it well, but if push comes to shove the pen ain't shit.

IOZ said...

Bullshit, man. I saw John Cusak kill a dude with a pen in Grosse Pointe Blank. Bitches.

word up! said...

uh huh. "The machine" has really put a damper on gun ownership in this country. Let's see:

Can I buy an AK-47 for deer hunting/ the revolution? --yep.

Can I get a flame thrower?--Yep.

How about a 50 caliber?--sure can. I mean one needs to shoot a moose from a mile away/ shoot at that fucking blue hat taking over the country.

So many gun laws in this country. What ever will we do when we're called to duty?

Push has come to shove. Yes?

tedthejackal said...

word up!-
My point was that the machine would like to outlaw guns entirely, and would if they thought they could.

Maybe the biggest leverage against the machine is that it needs a certain level of civilized norm to work its distributed specialized wealth enriching capitalist magic, and if the armed libertarian fringe can't necessarily giveth, it can more taketh away.

Got Grosse Pointe Blank on tape, don't recall any pen killing, may watch it again and fast forward through Dan Akroyd.

Leonard said...

Your fuzzyness:

I am an anarchocapitalist but I call myself libertarian, and am for all practical purposes in current circumstances. If minarchism were to catch on, and the people democratically pared the USA back to its Constitutional minimum, then I would part company with them. But that is counterfactual now and in all foreseeable future.

Another point that you've got wrong is the flaw in the concept of constitutional minarchism. It's not the monopoly in the use of force that is the problem. In fact we can still use force quite easily: that is what the war on terra is all about, ultimately. The problem is the state's monopoly in the legitimized use of force. Put simply: it's about what you can do and get away with.

If I told you how to run your garden, you'd laugh in my face, and if I came armed, demanding you stop growing wheat or pay me money, you'd probably shoot me dead. Justly so, and more importantly, justly in the eyes of most normal people. Even if convened, a jury would very likely refuse to convict you. But when the Supreme Court said that growing grain on your own land for your own consumption is "interstate commerce", and thus, proper for the US Congress to micromanage: nobody said no. Who could? It's not that they had more guns, though that is true in a sense. It's that everyone was clear that state agents would do whatever was necessary to make the decision stick, and that any resistance would be viewed as illegitimate, and that therefore anyone standing up for his own interpretation of the Constitution would not get off scot-free telling the USA to get lost and enforcing that.

stephanie g said...

Hyperbole much? If you guys experienced actual government oppression you'd piss your pants in terror.

Now, I tend to agree with IOZ's idea that if you give a government the power to do something it'll do it, especially if it benefits private interests. But this whole anti-state thing baffles me. Wherever humans gather in large numbers a government of some sort assembles itself. And this process went into overload circa 9,000 B.C. with the widespread adoption of agriculture in the ME and China. So you guys are pretty hosed if you want to live in some egalitarian state free world. Try hunter gathering, with a human density low enough to prevent a chiefdom from forming. That's the last time something like that happened.

One of the first things states did way back when was create large scale irrigation projects. States allow societies to do big things, some good, some bad. And that continues to this day. So I'll take my policeman and government bureaucrats, thank you very much.

Keifus said...

I always thought that the futility of working for a living was the sort of thing that's supposed turn people away from libertarianism, or at least expose some flaws in the tendencies of market economies to ensure justice-n-liberty. The ones with the gold still have a habit of making the rules, don't they?

I don't disagree that guys like Klein are exactly the sort who expect to waltz into some inneffectual management role in that metaphorical workplace, which could explain why he wears the same suit as the boss. I don't think that's a specifically leftie thing, not by any means.

Thomas Daulton said...

Back to the original IOZ post, IOZ has well articulated something that truly gave me the creeps during the 2000 election, and probably even as early as 1992: both major parties act like personality cults. The object of their adulations change every few years or so, but ever since "Lesser Evil"-Ism really took hold (maybe as far back as 1980?), partisan loyalists to me have exhibited all the symptoms of Good Germans from the 1930s. The difference is only that the Republicans _found_ their Charismatic Dictator ten years back, whereas the Democrats are still searching for theirs. (They'd love, and have tried, to form a personality cult around Bill Clinton, but it's been obvious since his Governor days that -- like other banana republic dictators -- Bill looked at public office more as a means of chasing tail than the Will to Power, and thus lacked staying power as a dictator. While his wife, well, she just ain't no Evita.)

If a truly cynical yet charismatic Democrat came along to herd these cats all in a neat line, I think the Dead Kennedys song "California Uber Alles" (the first version, featuring Jerry Brown) might just start to look Cassandran in its predictive accuracy. Obama has the charisma, maybe he will treat us all to a sweet countrified version of the DK classic.

Leonard said...

Stephanie, although it is true that there has not been much statelessness amongst non-primitive people, there has been some. And there has certainly been state power in degrees, especially in the USA. There manifestly has been much more power centralized in our government (originally, governments) as it has evolved over time. If you don't understand anti-state thought, it is either because you have not considered the obvious ramifications of that in either direction, or that you lack imagination. Both, likely.

As for "actual" oppression, you live every day in conditions (both good and bad) that would astound people 100 years ago. You just accept it as the way of the world, much as you accept refrigeration. Free your mind. As for who'd be pissing whose pants in whatever oppression you'd prefer... well, some folks are by temperment slaves and some are not. I'd prefer not to find out the hard way who's who.

littlehorn said...

It's funny that you'd say the system's the problem today, cause i posted this reaction to a NYT editorial yesterday.

Here's their final paragraph:
"We can only hope that this time, unlike 2004, American voters will have the wisdom to grant the awesome powers of the presidency to someone who has the integrity, principle and decency to use them honorably. Then when we look in the mirror as a nation, we will see, once again, the reflection of the United States of America."
This is exactly what you're talking about right ?

TGGP said...

I agree with Aaron's number 2, I'm not an anarchist for the same reason as Randall Holcombe.

As for his number 1, check out The Myth of Natural Monopoly. Many things we assume can only be provided by government was previously provided without it, but was later monopolized.

I like the Weberian definition of the state: that which has a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence within a certain geographic area.

Anonymous said...

IOZ is giving me second thoughts on walking away from the whole "can't beet them, join 'em" concept. Might as well get my old job back in the bowels of the police state because submitting to any social contract is ludicrous.

weldon berger said...

You know, I love you like a brother, I think, but this personality-based analysis is overdone--it really is true that well-meaning people tend to do less damage than frankly malevolent ones, Woodrow Wilson excepted.

I think too that you have to admit your skepticism about the inner steel of libertarians is undone in the face of the armed uprising that put an end to the Bush administration's surveillance state.

IOZ said...

Younz guys are good.

scott said...

Like Stephanie, I guess I'm still waiting for an answer to the "how do we do without a state or a government" question. Cuz it ain't been supplied here. Just saying.

scott said...

Just to clarify, I generally agree that Ezra Klein is a wanker about Ron Paul and gets curiously unhinged about him. He pretty much went apeshit a week or two all over Glenn Greenwald just because GG thought that Paul had interesting things to say about our diminishing civil liberties and imperialist foreign policy. Bizarre, I thought, for a professed liberal not to want these issues even discussed.

autoegocrat said...

Not lacking in imagination, and having both considered the obvious ramifications of anti-state thought as well as participated in a few gun fights, I'm still inclined to agree with Stephanie on all points.

cb said...

Scott - [/i]"I guess I'm still waiting for an answer to the "how do we do without a state or a government" question. Cuz it ain't been supplied here." question[/i]

It's actually been supplied in tggp's first link. The answer is "We don't."

But that doesn't de-legitimize the anarchist critique. It's possible to point out the egregious failings of modern American democracy without having a workable alternative plan in reserve.

As an analogy, I can say that traveling by planes completely sucks for a whole variety of reasons -- no leg room, delays in Newark, screaming children, the fucking useless security -- and these criticisms can be completely valid, even I don't have a grand plan for revolutionizing air travel with a fleet of magical zeppelins powered by whimsy.

There are plenty of anarcho-libertari-objectivists on the web with extensive discussions on how exactly to run the perfect Galt's Gulch, and if you are interested in that kind of crap, you can probably find them easily enough. If you're really interested in how awesome life would be if only we swapped out our horses with unicorns, you may wish to look elsewhere.

tedthejackal said...

I think we're getting afield. Our topic is how the guvment gets bigger and bigger, and how that sucks, and how we might collectively and as painlessly as possible constrain it within a sphere somewhere comfortably between necessary and completely the fuck out of control.

puppylander said...

Our topic is how the guvment gets bigger and bigger, and how that sucks, and how we might collectively and as painlessly as possible constrain it within a sphere somewhere comfortably between necessary and completely the fuck out of control.

ah crap. i thought this was about literal fucking.

Scats said...

Harold Barclay has an interesting book on the subject of past existing anarchist societies:

http://tinyurl.com/ysf9pf

Colin Ward writes very well on the topic of the nuts and bolts of potential ones, as do Kevin Carson, David Graeber (who has an awesome new book out) and Jeff Vail.

As CB says, there's plenty out there on the "what do we do" question. Plenty of interesting people trying interesting things. The Zapatistas are about to go to war again, you could help them out if you want to see a stateless society survive another year.

Some of these attempts will fail of course. So what? The only way to guarantee an outcome is by contracting to get fucked.

Brian said...

Is it just my lack of imagination that leads me to question exactly how "stateless" a society whose spokesperson calls himself "Subcommandante" anything would be? :)

Scats said...

Nah. Your lack of imagination leads you to not look for an answer to your question.

But the question isn't half-bad.

IOZ said...

Um. How exactly constitutional or republican is a Constitutional Republic whose spokesperson calls himself the Commander-in-Chief?

In other words, I agree. The question ain't half bad.

I'm not your father said...

Young progs like Klein are the worst in this regard because they've never had real jobs

Are you 12 or approaching a cranky senility of 95? I really can't tell.

I'm still not your father said...

Ron Paul is a dangerous moron, btw.

cb said...

Ron Paul is a dangerous moron, btw
Yes, yes, as are we all.

Brian said...

Scats: I know a tiny bit of the history. I was just being a smart ass. Still, the question is, indeed, a good one.

IOZ said...

How does a moron become dangerous anyway? Has anyone ever died from reading below his grade level?

Aaron said...

It does happen.

Kevin Carson said...

Just found your blog thanks to David Houser. Excellent. I've added you to my links under the "Luddite Social Commentary" heading (in my lexicon, that's high praise).

Klein and other goo-goos are just illustrations of the general rule that 20th century liberalism was fundamentally mangerialist in its origins and essence. Likewise their belief that no fundamental conflicts of interest exist that can't be transcended by the proper, well-intentioned leadership.

This last bears on your merciless vivisection of Obama and Obama cheerleaders like Oprah. From liberalism's origins with Herbert Croly (and his spawn in the National Civil League and The New Republic), liberals have assumed that material conflicts of interest, like those associated with class and race, are illusory. We just need the right charismatic leader, ala RFK, to relegate them to the dustbin of history. Witness Oprah and Stedman and their New Age bloviations on the Law of Attraction: poverty and exploitation have nothing to do with systematic or structural forces, like privilege. It's all just because the poor have their heads "in a bad place, man," and haven't yet learned to "name it and claim it." And the most important thing is not to abolish the structures of state and corporate power, but to make sure the political appointees in all the agencies, and the directors in all the boardrooms, and the CEOs and VPs, "look like America."

Well, Oprah may think it's just great for the minority underclasses that the crony capitalists and corporate welfare queens screwing them have the same color skin they do--especially with people like Oprah playing Lady Bountiful and giving away cars on her show and starting girls schools, and what-all. But as a white man, frankly, I come from a long line of folks who've been screwed over by people who look like us, and I have to say the appeal is seriously overrated.

What we need isn't multi-racial and -gender representation in the cabinets and boardrooms, but to abolish the cabinets and boardrooms and their power over our lives. And what we need is not charity from do-gooders like Oprah, but an end to the statist privilege that makes charity necessary.

Anonymous said...

Libertarianism is the solution to evil, In the way being able to fly back and forth to Neptune with giant rubber balloons would be a solution to the energy crises.

anyway.libertarians are arguing over the definitions of words.

Lib Dic
Governnment: {guv-ern-ment}
means what the world be like if you if you had power over me, libertarianism is what govt would be if i was god."....