Tuesday, February 26, 2008

Ralph Nader Intends to Blow Up the Moon with Republican Support

One thing that astonishes about Democratic partisans out in Netrootsia is just how thoroughly unexamined are their assumptions about what The Meshiach is going to do when the good lord delivers him--or, increasingly unlikely, her--unto Washington. "But Obama is going to end the war," someone said to me just the other night, face alight and bosoms aflutter, as if this nutty assertion was going to alter the Good Ship Abstention from its set course, which is neither into nor out of the doldrums.

"No he isn't," I replied flatly, and I found that my friend was totally unable to formulate a response--could not muster any evidence that this would in fact be the case, because there is no such evidence. The belief that Obama is going to end the war is as crazy an article of faith as the conviction among certain types that John McCain is going to win it. How will Barack Obama end the war? And if the answer is anything other than, "Upon assuming office, he will immediately begin the complete withdrawal of all American military forces, ordering an orderly withdrawal of all personnel and as much materiel as can be effectively salavaged, ceasing any and all interference in Iraqi internal affairs, engaging in no military action except the direct protection of departing soldiers and civilians, to be completed with no residual presence in-country by a date no more than three months distant," then, kids, I've got to tell you, he's not going to end the war.

What, instead, "ending the war" seems to mean is that a Democratic president by virtue of not being George W. Bush is going to effectuate precisely the sort of "reconciliation" that we are all being endlessly told is the necessary precondition to leaving. This is rarely stated outright, but always implied. Democrats are going to "use diplomacy". Words on the wind. It is a euphemism for the incredible notion that the United States is going to catalyze a negotiated settlement among grievants in Iraq that returns the territory to something resembling its pre-Invasion equilibrium, but Now With More Democracy! In case no one has noticed, the Turks have invaded Iraqi Kurdistan, the Iraqi Kurds are about to have a civil war (as well as expel the Arabs from Kirkuk), and among Arab factions--well, who the fuck even knows? Proportional representation and factional power-sharing is not the goddamned answer. Just look at the fucking Balkans!

Because no Democrat can accept a.) that Iraq as a national entity is thoroughly fucked, and b.) that Iraq is going to remain fucked during and well after our departure, no Democrat can end the Occupation. And that assumes that elected Democrats want to end it, which is itself a highly dubious proposition. Meanwhile, you can expect these very same Donk boosters to start clamoring that we "do something" about Sudan as soon as they have their hands back on the lever.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

as far as 'doing something' goes, we could always dismantle the bretton woods institutions and forgive all third world debt without precondition. then we could tax oil consumption and invest in urban infrastructure like public transportation. this would be much more effective than a millitary incursion.

Anonymous said...

well if your objective is to dismantle the bretton woods institutions and forgive all third world debt without precondition. then we could tax oil consumption and invest in urban infrastructure like public transportation, then yes that would be more effective. if you want to actually accomplish anything than i say we just invade iran because it will be more entertaining to watch

ran said...

From his web site:

"Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda."

so you as you can plainly see, with only a few minor ifs, ands, buts, and what have yous, he will lead us out of the unpromising land. how would you like your crow, sir?

Anonymous said...

Hardened cynic that I am, I still retain the faint hope that Obama actually means what he says in his platform. Sixteen months is a long time, and I don't really see the sense in a phased withdrawal -- here the cynic pipes up that it will become an excuse to stop or reverse because "the violence has gone up" -- but since none of the other candidates offer even the hint of a whiff of a hope that they might end the occupation someday, it's the best option we've got.

Crusader AXE said...

Well, as for Darfur, I heartily endorse a petition to the UN followed by a car wash or two to help pay for body armor for whomever the poor bastards are that get sent there.

Madeline Albright used to complain about Colin Powell as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs not wanting to use the military to achieve vague and ill-defined things. Basically, she'd whine, we've given you this marvelous tool and you don't want to use it.

So, Bush and Cheney and Rummy and Wolfie and Powell -- let's not forget his role in this gang rape of Mother Liberty --took the tool and broke it. Besides, at the moment, the party of fiscal responsibility is, Tiffany be praised (the singularity we worship over at Defeatist Central due to our inability to accept the whole God thing), is the Democratic chingasa thing. No money, no invasions.

Hell, maybe Grover Norquist has succeeded in starving the beast, as the enemies approach the gates...fortunately, the gates in Darfur are a long way away...

LA Confidential Pantload said...

So..he'll remove all the combat troops. How many non-combat troops will that leave?

He'll leave troops to guard the Embassy (the largest in the world) and our diplomats. Do these diplomats include the State Department development teams that will be spread all over the country?

He wants to keep troops in the area to stop al-Qaeda from building a base in Iraq. Why does he think the Iraqis will allow al-Qaeda to build a base in Iraq?

IOZ said...

Dear Ran,

"Combat brigades." Huh. I'm sure there's nothing funny about that rather particular phrasing. He won't have to build permanent military bases. They're already built. Troops "in the region" are the reason al Qaeda came into being. This is the old "responding to contingencies" canard. I suppose I shouldn't attack you personally, but you'd make a lousy lawyer if that's how poorly you parse lawyer's prose.

IOZ said...

Ah, La Confidential beat me to it.

Brian said...

Ioz...just gotta break in and say: You the Man!

Sums it up!

Oh well...I'm off to do battle on a site sporting yet more misery about how Nader is going to ruin everything

Mark said...

I think my man Ran was being sarcastic.

ran said...

ioz: you actually didn't smell the sarcasm? I'll add the tags next time.

Montag said...

"Obama is going to end the war."

"War." Huh. That funny particular phrasing says nothing about The Occupation! BURN!!1!

Anonymous said...

did you get that prescription for ending the war from Dennis Kucinich's website? or perhaps you just paraphrased his House Bill 1234?

i don't care if the man saw a UFO or if he and his wife are into new age mystical bullshit. the man would have ended the war, or (more likely) would have died trying. he also refused to vote to grant Bush the power to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, voted against the USA PATRIOT Act, and voted against every single bill that provided any funding for the wars whatsoever. all of these actions clearly set him apart as the one candidate who would walk the walk when he got into office.

the fact that most "liberals" or "progressives" who claim to have been against the war from the beginning, detest the encroachments on our civil liberties, and decry the rise of torture as policy, dismissed kucinich as a loony, while jumping on the bandwagons of other more "serious" candidates who have been complicit in Bush et al.'s shenanigans through either their inaction or their outright votes in favor of certain pieces of legislation, is a sign of just how screwed up our little American "democracy" is. when voters can't even recognize the candidate that best represents their views, or do but still won't vote for that candidate, then there's really no point in having elections anymore.

daveg said...

Still, you have to vote for him. At least he will have to go back on his promise rather than having McCain who will just be seen as confirming the public's support for the war.

The democrat base is going to go nuts if Obmama is elected and he tried to pull back on this promise.

[BTW, Obama just upped the scehdule from 16 to 12 months.]

There will be huge protests outside Pelosi's and Reid's office as well as the White House if he does not follow through with this promise.

Yeah, he might be able to leave a very small group of troops but that is about it.

This is one check (cheque?) the netroots are going to demand be cashed.

steveb said...

I'd like to put in a word in for rising expectations, even if they are false expectations.

I don't care about the Dems, and I'm not voting for them in November, but I am interested in building an antiwar movement that's strong enough to pull the US out of Iraq no matter who is president. An environment in which tens of millions of people actually expect the US to get out in a year provides more opportunities for doing that work than one in which everyone expects us to stay in Iraq for the next hundred years.

I'm not taking part in the deception myself, and anyone who asks is going to hear from me that Obama wants to increase the size of the military (Why does he need to do that, if he's getting out of Iraq? Does he have some other country in mind for those extra troops?) and about his willingness to send troops into Pakistan, even over the opposition of that country's government. But I can only talk to so many people, and I expect most will retain their illusions about Obama, so we might as well take advantage of that.

Montag said...

daveg: LOL!

i can't wait for the netroots to finally flex their muscles to effect a general strike, and flood the streets by the millions, and quake the walls of power with sheer humanity and shaking fists, and stand tall in the face of the tanks and directed energy weapons that come to meet them.

IOZ said...

The democrat base is going to go nuts if Obmama is elected and he tried to pull back on this promise.

No they're not.

LA Confidential Pantload said...

IOZ,

Have to disagree - of course they'll go nuts! Why, can't you imagine the thousands of outraged, jowls-aquiver posts on Hullabaloo and Firedoglake? "How could he do this?" "Who could have known?" (and richest of all) "Who's blackmailing him?"

Of course, maybe you were thinking "going nuts" as, like, actually DOING something....

steveb said...

I suspect there may be Americans who oppose the war but are not regulars at Hullabaloo or Firedoglake, but I could be wrong about this.

romerocker said...

Haven't you heard? Doing nothing is doing something.

tooearly said...

whether he ends it or not, listening to his political jibberish will be som much finer than what we currently endure

daveg said...

The point still stands, if you don't punish the people who got us into Iraq then they will not change their behavior.

The netroots communitee is not protesting now becuase they know that the democrats have a point in the end when they say a) Bush will Veto and b) we can't withhold funding for the troops when they are in the field.

This is true even though the Dems are softer then they could be on the issue of the war.

But, when no such excuse is present their will be such excuse and you will see a strong reaction. People punish traitors much harder than they do the enemy, who they expect to be evil.

Bottom line, you still have to vote for Obama if you are against the war, even if you don't think he will do much in the end (although I disagree with that view).

As for tanks and ray guns in the street, you can't argue with logic like that.

stephanie g said...

No, you vote for Obama because he's easy on the eyes and his face is easy to wake up to in the morning when watching the talking head shows. Grandpa McCain needs to be sent to a home.