Thursday, February 14, 2008

Security Blankets

Those who complain most loudly about the modern nation-state nevertheless leap to its defense at the mention of other possible arrangements. They have many elaborate scenarios in which the state, properly constituted, properly restrained, and run by the right sorts of people with the right sorts of education and the best of intentions, serves only those functions that they believe it properly possesses. The qualities we mock in American liberalism, the FDR syndrome, the idea that a skilled managerial class will resist the temptations of power that come with centralizing a government for tens and hundreds of millions of people, aren't actually limited to managerial liberals. Even self-described libertarians ultimately subscribe to the idea that the problem with government is that it's not run by our kind of people. Mention the devolution of the nation-state and everyone is suddenly a Hobbesian.

Take the argument, advanced by some in the comments of this post that in the absence of a countervailing liberal state order, the muzlums will kill all the womenfolk. That's an exaggeration, but not much of one. It's a tendentious contention to say the least, but for the sake of argument, let's grant the point. We get rid of the Capitol, pull down the White House, break up the states, and so forth. Big Ben gets shoved into the Thames. The Elysées palace gets firebombed. We're all living in our own little enclaves. The per capita prevalence in certain communities of "honor killing," of female genital mutilation, of the stoning to death of queers and adulterers, etc., modestly increases.

I for one am untroubled by such an outcome. It seems to me infinitely preferable to a world in which one singular state entity has the capacity to wipe out all human life. It seems to me vastly better than a world in which aircraft bomb civilian neighborhoods from beyond the reach of retaliation as part of international economic and social engineering schema. Any argument that proceeds from the base assumption that the modern nation-state is necessary so that each precious mustard seed of a person can grow into a mighty oak is utopian and self-refutingly ridiculous. Anarchist sentiments--mine, anyway--do not begin with the assumption that smashing the parliaments and armies of the world will bring an end to human ills and atrocities. It begins, instead, with the idea that it would substantially decrease their terrible scope and scale.

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

Isn't the basic libertarian paradigm aimed at the notion that some limited government reduces the overall net force with which we interact with one another? With zero government, the big boys amongst us steal the hot chicks from geeks like me (or hot young studs from geeks like you, as the case may be). We're now waaaaaay past that in terms of government involvement, of course, but would you agree that some minimal government actually creates a net increase in freedom?

For the moment, set aside the practical point that government is self-interested in increasing its own power. That is absolutely a serious concern but might be solved by process controls.

howard treesong

Montag said...

the problem with government is that it's not run by our kind of people

and even if it was, at the nation state scale, there would surely arise the periodic need for purges and 'cultural revolutions.'

i do worry, as anonymous howard might, that my sleepy little left-libertarian-anarchic farming village will fare when the local roving-militaristic-warlord-cult comes around for the harvest.

perhaps i'll throw in with the samauri instead.

Montag said...

"how" not "that"

mattc1170 said...

So when we're all living in our little enclaves, how do we prevent the "bad" enclaves from raping and pillaging the "good" enclaves?

IOZ said...

Dear mattc1170,

"Anarchist sentiments--mine, anyway--do not begin with the assumption that smashing the parliaments and armies of the world will bring an end to human ills and atrocities. It begins, instead, with the idea that it would substantially decrease their terrible scope and scale."

Do you speak English? Parla usted Ingles?

Love,
IOZ

Anonymous said...

It begins, instead, with the idea that it would substantially decrease their terrible scope and scale.

The difference in scope and scale between "wiping out all human life" and "the genocide of my little enclave" are not, really, all that different from a day-to-day, trying to live my life sort of view. Either way I'm dead. Frankly, in the grand scheme of things, I actually AM most interested in the welfare of myself and my loved ones. After that's taken care of, I start worrying about humanity as an abstract concept.

Also - you may burn down the Capitol, disband the armies, and turn the world into a bunch of little enclaves all struggling for survival. Within a few generations or so we'd be right back where we are now. Because, again, humans are bastards. And if a bunch of weaker bastards need to gang up to survive against stronger bastards, that's what they'll do. And the strongest group of bastards will grow larger and larger until we're right back where we are now. The only way you're going to stop it is, in fact, by wiping out human life. And then maybe we'll get replaced by something that gets along with each other in a less agressive fashion - highly evolved bees or something. But I doubt it.

Jim Wetzel said...

IOZ, I think I have the answer to your question. No, they do not speak English.

Maybe you should ask again, in a more Tarantino-esque way: "English, motherfucker! Do ... you ... speak ... it?"

the_system said...

So when we're all living in our little enclaves, how do we prevent the "bad" enclaves from raping and pillaging the "good" enclaves?"

What indeed?

The error in your thinking, dear IOZ, lies in the presumption that these people are some kind of hopeless statists stuck in a sort of cognitive rut and not just a bunch of opportunists in the business of protecting their own privilege, consequences be damned.

The United States is the largest "roving, militaristic cult" the world has ever seen, after all. But since that makes it highly unlikely that anyone else is ever going to disrupt their precious little lives, well, so be it. To hell with the brown people.

Anonymous said...

I personally would use violent force to rob people in the absence of a police force.

YF

Anonymous said...

Also, what happens to all the preexisting bombs, planes, WMD's etc when nation states disappear? Plowshares, all of them?

YF

mohjho said...

But...but... Mr.IOZ, my mortgage is almost paid off. If I give you 50 bucks will you go away?

Anonymous said...

Also IOZ, as I'm sure you know, most combat deaths are caused by small arms. While you might see fewer organized bombing campaigns in an anarchic world, I don't see how dismantling nation states would do anything to reduce the deadliest force on the battlefield. If anything, I would think an anrchic environment might be more conducive to small arms violence. Anarchy might be great for liberty, but I really disagree that you will see less large scale slaughter.

YF

la Rana said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mattc1170 said...

IOZ, I speak English just fine, my friend. I suppose I should have been more explicit.

Human nature being what it is, our happy little enclaves aren't going to sit idly by while their members get robbed and slaughtered. The people in the "good" enclaves will start demanding an end to the raping and pillaging; they'll quickly realize they can't defend themselves on their own, so they'll organize with other "good" enclaves. And before you know it, our collection of enclaves starts to look an awfully lot like....a nation state.

IOZ said...

Now you sound like an Anthro drop-out. I don't mean to rain on anyone's paradigm, but your account of the origins of nation-states is not especially convincing, for the same reason that George W. Bush talking about Iran is not convincing: that which it presumes for the other is really only reflective of the self.

eatbees said...

I used to be an anarchist, and sentimentally I still am, but I've come to accept that the only thing that preserves the peace on a given patch of ground is the state's monopoly of force. The least bad option is to limit the state's power with checks and balances and the consent of the governed. Your concern about the scale of violence that nation states permit themselves is fully justified, but I would go in the other direction from you and elevate the monopoly of force to the global level, along with checks and balances, of course, and the consent of the governed. We need a democratically elected world parliament, chosen on the principle of one person, one vote. If China had 120 delegates, the U.S. would have 30 and France would have 6. That is the only way to constrain the power of multinational corporations, prevent large chunks of the planet from being ruled by private armies, solve planetary problems like climate change, and tap the wealth of the richest nations to provide education, health care and infrastructure to the planet's impoverished majority. Your plan, if it were possible, would simply replace a few big conflicts with an infinite number of small ones, which in the aggregate would get just as ugly. Thugs wishing to control trade routes and natural resources won't go away, so a structure more powerful than them is needed, accountable to the people. I used to dream of living in the burned-out shell of civilization, but then I realized that the survivors would start aggregating power all over again, at enormous cost. A world of small communities that leave each other alone isn't possible unless there is a mediating power over them all that they all accept because it has democratic legitimacy. Europe no longer has wars because they've designed such structures. I think we need to develop something similar on a global scale.

Anonymous said...

dude, do not bogart that sh*t.

pass it, please.

Msr., the toe-picks are piling up.

IOZ said...

You're making a number of conceptual errors, eatbees. "Consent of the governed" is a concept without a real-world antecedent. The governed don't sign up for their government. Try to write on your next tax return that you are not a party to any agreements between the United States government and its citizens, if you need a real-world example. Consent requires at the most fundamental level the capacity to withdraw. The one-world government you imagine only exacerbates that problem, as it becomes literally impossible to opt out. You can't even change your citizenship.

"Democratic legitimacy"? Really? Why does democracy guarantee legitimacy? If 51% of "the world" overrules and disenfranchises 49%, are the 49% obliged to accept it as legitimate? If 60% do the same to 40%, are the 40%? If 90% of the world's population acts contrary to the interest of 10%, then you've got 700 million pissed-off people. I'm afraid that the teleology of Democracy leaves me entirely cold. The larger the governing organization and the larger the governed population, the less representative is either of each other's will and desires.

John Kindley said...

No one's brought up the classic idea of Rothbard and David Friedman that defense could satisfactorily be provided in a state of anarchy by private defense agencies and voluntary mutual defense societies. Your little enclave, while providing its own defense against local threats, could voluntarily join with other enclaves in a bigger badder mutual defense society of its choice solely to defend against larger external threats.

I suppose the same concerns with scale and corruption might attend the larger organization, whether voluntary or not.

My own preference would be for a geoist (i.e. Georgist) system or "federation" of mutual protection societies, which would settle the inevitable chaos surrounding putative land rights in an anarchist society ("Homesteading? Use and occupancy? What are those?"), which I described at length in a comment thread on David Friedman's blog, at https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=19727420&postID=982240221334824072

I'm not as concerned with the problems of scale, so long as the only thing that was delegated to the larger organization was the ability to provide for large scale DEFENSE and to arbitrate otherwise-unresolvable disagreements between the constituent mutual protection societies / enclaves. The collection of the funds in the first place would have their justification in the protection of land rights (including the land rights of the landless), and how any amounts taken off the top as the costs of making such collection possible are spent should be constrained by the same justification. Theoretically, every member of society would be an equal member, not only of their enclave, but also of the largest organizations (because each would theoretically be contributing an equal amount to the organization's operations -- from what they would otherwise be entitled to in the form of a "citizen's dividend" representing their right to a free and equal share of the earth -- even though those holding valuable land would be required to pay more to the society than those who hold less or no land). Even if you had a geoist mutual protection society on the scale of the present territory of the U.S. (though I don't believe such a large scale would necessary for reasonable defense in the world once the last superpower is gone), I see no reason why the millions of members of that society could not have an equal direct vote (given modern technology) on the fundamental question of what percentage of land value (i.e. how much money) will be allocated to the "national" organization for purposes of "national" defense. Again, every dime collected and used to fund such defense would actually be money that, on geoist principles, should not be the exclusive property of the one from whom it was collected.

Pure fantasy, I know.

TGGP said...

The dudes that run China are pretty bad motherfuckers, I don't want to give them any more power, just as I don't want to give any more to Uncle Sam. Smash it, don't expand it. The worst always rise to the top, so make that peak as low as possible.

I ponder why exactly I am not a Hobbessian here. I question whether limited government is possible here, here and here.

I don't think defense can be provided privately. If it can, where are all the private defense agencies outcompeting the states that have seized hold of every place on earth other than the oceans and Antarctica? I just want to break down states as far as possible because they frighten me, not because I think anarchy is sustainable. Check out Randall Holcombe's Government: Unnecessary but Inevitable.

TGGP said...

Speaking of the emergence of the State, I've assembled Franz Oppenheimer's book all in one handy page.

la Rana said...

I am completely unsatisfied with your characterization of spontaneous state-formation and Hobbesian ethics in a state of anarchy as presumptions. They are, of course, but that's a two-edged sword you're holding.

Let me know, cuz I was hoping to wrap up this whole anarchy v. state thing later this afternoon.

Aaron said...

Kind of reminds you of this, and this. Not to be confused with this, which turns out to be a legalism. As the man said, "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture." Still, put me down for the State of Grace.

Keifus said...

Fuck. There goes my chance to comment.

SteveB said...

The rebuttal to the "But other people will come and take our stuff!" argument can be found in Iraq. The US went in with the intention of taking the Iraqis' stuff (in this case, the oily stuff under their sand), but found that to be more difficult than expected.

In a world where automatic weapons and high explosives are cheap and plentiful, the cost-benefit ratio on "Let's go take their stuff!" shifts significantly in the direction of "No, on second thought, let's not."

Brian said...

Well...in the good old days when most tribes only had spears (hence, armaments were democratically available), that didn't stop continuous inter-tribal warfare, did it?

Crusader.AXE said...

I guess we are inevitably overrun by biker gangs. They just all wear the same uniform in the Statist world and their bikes are the same -- in our case, probably Harleys oursourced to Malasyia or some goddamn place. The Anarchos will be on Schwinns...

Mr.Fundamental said...

this is silly. explain to me how our occupation (avocation?) in Iraq is making me safer here, cause I forget.

explain to me how the UN makes me safer, or does all the things in its charter.

the police still jerk off manually where I'm at. I would pay them to skip college, that way I have somewhat of an advantage.

dude, my cat could claw my eyes out tonight and rip open my jugular, and nobody'd know for awhile because there's locks on our doors. I'll still get up a half hour before I go in, still ride on the bike path and right side of the road, etc. you might ask what your city/township/municipality might do with your federal tax money. or, if this scares you, you might ask why you've armed so many people to protect you to begin with.

more pertinent I think than my blogviating is, if there's no real demand for the giant military we have, why don't we disband it in times of peace?

TGGP said...

steveb and brian, check out Steve Sailer's Dirt Theory of War. War still happens because our brains haven't kept pace with technological/economic/societal change.

The best take on causes of the Iraq war I've read is in Victory and Recruitment by Michael Neumann in Counterpunch.

Brian said...

Mr Fundamental makes some good points. The only response to all of his questions: Have you seen the salaries of defense company CEOs? My smaller military city-14,000 people work at the local base. lots and lots of money. Since we've off-shored most of our economy, bombing and killing and making ever more elaborate weapons seems to be the only thing we do.

So...my skepticism aside, I must agree with our host. There will be nasty little Christian Republics of Mississippi and Aryan Homeland of Hayden Lake kinds of places. But, their leaders won't have access to a trillion dollar military.

Anonymous said...

man is a wolf to man, as they said long ago - and wolves need packs

the rest follows

--hermitlobster

Mr.Fundamental said...

so...explain to me how hard it would be on everyone if the federal government disappeared. poof. would I notice? besides the um...unemployment numbers. think macro, not micro.

remember, the whole effing thing is designed precisely to exculpate and absolve us from responsibility, no matter what those that agitate say. the state is the abstraction we create to "deal" with our own ugliness. it is what gets sent overseas to fuck shit up. it is the opposite of responsibility. we hand over the keys to all our problems, heh, even defense, to an elected few. (why does the clown look sad?)

YF has it right, somewhat, because if the entire apparatus were to dissolve, each person would be a lot more responsible for their own silly ass. as for the nationstatehoorahwagon^tm? you can live with it, acknowledge your complicity, and go along, or. . .

anarchy is supposed to be a breathe of fresh air through all of this, yet we can't see past the state's horizon, and this is a blog. now that is Defeatist. if the pwoggers have taught us anything, it's that you can't accomplish shit on the internet, so you might as well have fun with it.

we're beyond fucked. enjoy the ride, chumps.

as for the global nation state, I want to know when we in PA are going to invade Jersey. boo yea.

Anonymous said...

Fascinating conversation, but not really relevant to your earlier post: opt-in sharia law wasn't going to go along with the dismantling of the British nation-state. Quite the contrary: it would subject a whole bunch of people to more than one set of laws, ALL of which would be enforced by the power of the British state.

And yeah, I agree with those who say the little enclaves would very quickly congeal into big enclaves.

Anonymous said...

Under true anarchy, it wouldn't be a question of "Muslims" having "their" own little enclaves, as Dr. Rowan Williams foolishly advocated. No, it would be conservative Shia enclaves, conservative Sunni enclaves, Arab Muslim enclaves, African Muslim enclaves, liberal enclaves, moderate enclaves, little queer paradises for gay Muslims, enclaves where feminist Muslim women strictly enforce their interpretation of Islam and defend their own equality and ritually castrate ultra-conservative mullahs...In true anarchy, you could leave sharia law and join a lesbian separatist hippie green commune that requires you to dye your hair purple.

Somehow I don't think we'll see Dr. Williams or most of his defenders arguing that we should respect those affiliations, too. I'm thinking most of those people only want self-determination for conservative "faith communities."
The pros and cons of anarchy aren't the issue here. The real issue is the weird, reverent special treatment given to modern-day men's idea of old-time religion.

Keifus said...

Anarchy maam, if you can keep it.

IOZ said...

No offense to the posters prior to mah man keifus, but neither of the posts that you're writing about are about what you're writing about.

Dunc said...

While I'm in broad theoretical agreement, there is still the one major stumbling block that most anarchists overlook: we've had anarchy. Lots of anarchies, in fact. And what did the people living in those anarchies do with the freedom it presented them, in every single case? Why, they constructed governments at the first available opportunity!

So, until we can either: (a) come up with effectively infinite productive capacity and practical space travel; or (b) fundamentally reform human nature, we're kinda stuck with it...

TGGP said...

Dunc, government is not created by people in a state of anarchy. It is imposed by conquerors.

Dunc said...

Dunc, government is not created by people in a state of anarchy. It is imposed by conquerors.

Unless you're proposing that, at a point somewhere around the mid-to-late Mesolithic, the nascent agricultural communities of our ancestors were conquered by space aliens,that statement is, frankly, fucking bullshit. Where did the first governments come from, Einstein?

While I'm sure Oppenheimer's The State is a very interesting read from a historical perspective, it is clearly based on the Morganian model of social evolution - which is also fucking bullshit, as anyone with any knowledge of anthropology post-dating the collapse of the British Empire should know.

puppylander said...

i wonder if formation of state is a whole lot simpler, needing only a catchy jingle for germination, like "no taxation without representation".

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