So. My boy Glenn goes to Colorado for the annointing. There he discovers that the people who pay for the Democratic Party pay for the Democratic Party. He notices that AT&T, the corporate sponsor of the convention, has pasted its logo all over the Democratic Party's signage, which is, of course, what corporate sponsors do. He extrapolates that wealthy industries may have undue influence on the party, that the party agrees to immunize the telecoms from legal actions, for instance, because the party is the beneficiary of a little fiscal largesse. He discovers that the party doesn't particularly care what he, Glenn Greenwald, thinks, nor what Amy Goodman of Democracy . . . any . . . hang on . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . minute . . . now thinks, nor what any of the callow, pudgy, middle-aged losers rockin' to the golden oldies and waving signs from the convention floor think, because none of you motherfuckers is rich, bitch. Perhaps it even occurs to him that these very same entitites give money to the Republicans as well. Perhaps it occurs to him that industry provides well-paid sinecures for ex-officials who tire of palace life. Perhaps it occurs to him that government and corporate industry are sides of a coin in our glorious, post-Soviet system of State Capital.
So. In. Other. Words. These political insights are equally available to anyone who takes a couple of bong rips and sits on his ass watching Bulworth. What is he doing in Denver except validating the spectacle as some kind of legitimate, meaningful democratic process, and why does he insist that he's still going to vote for this gang? I begrudge no man his scam, and I hope Glenn is making bank on book and blog alike, but seriously, they pay him for this?
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
Sky? Blue. Water? Wet.
Labels:
Democracy,
Glenn Greenwald,
Netrootsia,
the Donkle
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79 comments:
more and better Demo. . .wheels. we must pwogwess and impwoove upon the wheel! it can be done better!
maybe he just wants to verify the previous results from another study. it's plausible. . .
I think the technical term is "shill." There should be a term for one who is a shill but does not recognize it; if anyone knows a word, kick in. Still, the role is the same: make the game look fair, or even easy.
I don't understand why he was surprised that they wouldn't let him in to watch the sausage being made. He's no dummy - though if he continues to fantasize that it's only the "Blue Dogs" who are the problem, I may have to revise my opinion.
but it doesn't have to be this way! i have a plan. it involves Dennis Perrin and a time machine, but it's crazy enough it just might work.
Dennis Perrin . . . in the Green Room . . . with the Time Machine.
Clue!
Ashley: Maybe the word you are looking for is "Tool."
I have to admit that when listening to the Dennis Perrin interview, he sounds about 12 years old. But but but but Mr. Perrin...how dare you say that?
What is he doing in Denver...
No doubt wheezing in the mile high air. Suck it down, coastals! Now GTFO, all of you.
All I can think of when seeing protesters in Denver is: "how much energy did they waste to transport out to bum-fuck egypt to get ignored, humiliated, arrested and beat up?"
Worse than stating the obvious is that they're supporting the same exceptionalism and policies they claim to oppose. Somebody slap an ATT advert on their forehead. At least they should get on the payroll.
I also think that even if there are riots, the footage is gonna end up in some Mountain Dew commercial. It's owned by Pepsi after all.
Can you imagine. They'd buy the rights to The Circle Jerks' When the Shit Hits the Fan and get a lot of fast-cut footage of that gang of losers shouting Fuck Fox News. Do. The. DEW!
I have a soft spot for Glenn since early on he was one of the lefties who gave Ron Paul a fair shake. I take that as a sign he has true red pill epiphany potential. Compared to the daily Kos he's light years ahead.
He also knows better than anybody the details of all those "government can spy on us all it wants" laws.
Overall, I like the guy.
"I begrudge no man his scam..."
I've been wondering for some time now if Greenwald has been playing possum to collect some chubby checks. He seems to understand quite well how our not so majestic imperial overseers operate and, as we've clearly seen, he even reads the monsieur himself. While it would be wildly awesome if he were putting on the appearance of a true believer in the mending of the "broken" imperium in hopes of achieving sweet succulent DEMOCRACY to procure fatty payperz I doubt that is the case. His background as a constitutional lawyer and his apparent sincerity (i.e. showing up at AT&T parties with the other "ah man, democwacy bwoke again?Lets FIX IT!" rubes) point to a true believer in a little elbow grease and some shiny new parts. fuckin bummer man
Like Joan Rivers writing an expose about the Vanity Fair Oscar night afterparty...
An account of the Demolition. I throw my vote to the Advil corporation.
I miss the riotporn blog.
When I recall Alexander Hamilton's quotes about how the owners of the country should run it and that the people are a great beast, I start to muster up some affection for the old Federalist. Then I recall everything else he did.
What's a highly intelligent person who doesn't want to be in the business world or smoke pot or go to the opera supposed to do?
Sooner or later he's going to see an opening and he'll be ready if he decides to take it. I wouldn't say Glenn's an unwitting shill or a tool--he's just assessing the lay of the land.
Glenn is antiwar and has a lot of potential. If we want to laugh at someone, how about Mark Warner?
Warnings to Russia from Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham
And he wrote that--nothing to sniff at.
Poor Glenn knows, in his heart of hearts, that the whole game is shit, but he can't get past the Lesser Evil idiocy. Given his hostility to any third-party organizing, I think he believes in the whole 'reform-the-Donk-from-the-inside' myth. He's too young to remember the many iterations of this fantasy over the past 40-odd years, or the craven failure that has been the result of every attempt.
Ah, youth...
oh give me a break, i'm 26, I hardly have a cunning mind, yet i can realize what a fucking farce it all is.. someone who is greenwald's age (40+ YEARS OLD!), who lived through the clinton era politically conscious has no excuse.
but i'll stop whining and smoke some weed and youtube some bulworth.. IOZ u've brought up laibach and "when the shit hits the fan" recently, can you incorporate some flipper videos later? Thanks!
Never underestimate the human capacity to sincerely believe two entirely contradictory ideas at once.
Our mr. fun nails something I've been wondering about: didn't we see this street threatre from the DN! folks four years ago in the streets of...?
Dunno. Maybe it's the seemingly endless days of following the bouncing ball, but, all these conventions start to run together.
IOZ hits a point I've been wondering about, too, for some time now. I guess GG's is a good gig, if you can get it. But, honestly, wouldn't a dewd want to maintain a shred of integrity?
That vid - with Jane manning the camera - was really a sad spectacle.
"Land of sky blue water" is the old Hamm's line for Minnesooooooooota.
I'm ready for a change of venue.
How's about y'all?
Mike
In other pwog news, Digby still thinks American government-sponsored torture started in 2001, and some asshole commenter at Sadly, No! was the first (that I've seen myself; I don't read Kos) to clearly state that undermining Obama is a "kind of treason". See you all in the re-education camps...unless Hillary's fans do manage to cost Barack the election, and then maybe they'll be too busy with their civil war to worry about us.
Looks like some other people have been following the campaign and convention coverage...
" I guess GG's is a good gig, if you can get it. But, honestly, wouldn't a dewd want to maintain a shred of integrity?"
Sadly, though...isn't that true of most "professional"level careers. The slient despair of the middle aged! :)
"But, honestly, wouldn't a dewd want to maintain a shred of integrity?"
This is why you'll never be rich or influential.
one of the things GG is contributing is a kind of "evidence," I suppose. Instead of just saying corporations have undue influence over the Congress... he gives a peek at how the process works.
Tell me again why this is useless? You'd prefer he...what, again?
heavens to Murgatroyd. apologies for Wee Glennie? he knows government spying better than anyone? gimme a break! he does NOTHING to stop that shit, he apologizes for the dipshitdonkeys that enabled it, and he runs around making quasi-legal arguments for authoritarian SuperDonkeys because... why?
oh we all know. it's because Donkeys are innately superior, and they only need to find their souls again. Wee Glennie's trying to help them on that score.
holy hogwash. the freakin' Donkeys will piss on Wee Glennie again and again, and he will use his pathetic wee brain to conjure more excuses for them and why they, and only they, are our salvation.
that's not intelligence. that's idiocy. even with two published books and a law degree, he's still an idiot.
gee.
I'm sorry.
that just slipped out.
Meh. The entire system's corrupt... no shit. Of course it is.
There are still degrees of corruption... I'd rather that our masters slightly favored lower-middle class folks than the upper.
Sure the Donks are corrupt... but I've a better shot at getting 'a few crumbs tossed my way' with them than with the Repubs.
Yeah, GG seems a bit bright-eyed and sincere. Yes, naive perhaps. Maybe the dude needs to be in order to do his job... if the dude was as cynical (rightly so or not) as the bulk of the folks here - myself included - all he'd write would be decadent self-defeatist pap... like most of the posts on this blog.
I read this blog a lot, everyday really... but it drips with ennui and hopelessness.
Is the system fucked and hopeless? Yeah, pretty much.
There's still room in it for some damage control, however, no matter how meager, and while I'm living here in this fucked up country I want as much damage control as possible... no matter how little or insignificant it seems.
No, we can't save the system... we also can't start a revolution. Yes, I want to move elsewhere. Until I do, though, I want things to be as tolerable as possible and folks like GG help with that, even if it's just a little.
Folks here really don't do shit (myself included).
Let's give the guy a break. If we're going to snicker at him, at least let's do it quietly.
What, precisely, does Glenn "But But But The Rule Of Law!" Greenwald do about a blessed thing, other anon? As far as I can see, two things: jack and shit, and jack's left town.
I accomplish more screaming at the teevee when I watch CNN than Greenwald has in his whole career. Ooooh, he published some books and has a law degree! Let's build a statue of the fucker! That will surely be salve for the literal and psychic wounds of the Iraqi citizens we rained fire down on with the help of the party he hopes to redeem from within. Don't worry Iranians, Glenn Greenwald will keep Uncle Sam from kickin your door wavin the .44!
IOZ, would you be so kind as to remove that ghastly duplicate post?
We're not in the habit of giving people breaks. "Stop heckling, you hecklers!"
Ennui? How about sang-froid?
Ioz, fair enough.
As far as 'what has GG done to help?', well, he's pretty widely read and published. If what he writes reaches even just a few people to, you know, maybe make them question their preconceptions about the status quo, well... that's doing something.
What would you prefer the guy do? Set fire to the Capitol? Or should he just have another drink and go watch Colbert?
Guy's a writer for Christsakes, not some messiah. I've never understood the whole 'But But But What Does He Do?!' thing. Least he does -something-.
Monsieur YOZ is a right hoot.
There ain't no doubtin' that 'round these parts.
however.
Little Master Greenwald has gone far outta his busy way in order to engage us here, there, and æfre gehwær.
He let Chris Floyd - CHRIS FLOYD!!! - guest-blog on his dime this past spring...
If youse guise think he is 'Hinnuleus,' I think that this all depends on YOUR point of view...
I know where my ass is. I'm sittin' on it.
But Greewald is actually engaging the issues and has enough foresight to see that 'this medium' will steadily grow in influence and should not be abandoned to corporatists and unpublished artists like - me.
Our lad Glenn will soon be of some import and positive impact, so let's not cut him off at the knees too soon, eh? Just push him a little the way he wants to push The Party. Well. Ya never know...
Just as an introductory aside...during my first year French Oral, the examiners pressed me about my relationship with my girlfriend. She was from Virginia. Slowly, I lost my way and I lost my mind; in an elementary paranoid delusion, I became certain that the Prof and his aides were demanding to know if Joy 'was' a virgin...
I got a "B".
Hat's-Off, dear YOZ.
Scott
i swear the world we knew is gone. the pod people are among us.
heard on npr's "the world" this afternoon: Demver female delegate asked about her preferences for foreign policy wonks in an obama cabinet said that two repugs - colin and condi - could serve in a Dem Administration.
(why not? there's pie enough for everyone!)
she stated - without apparent irony - "they know where the bodies are buried...."
i don't know if there are enough bong hits left in IOZ' private stash to get us all through the next week and a half.
lordie help us; it's going to be a long autumn.
ronald
all he'd write would be decadent self-defeatist pap... like most of the posts on this blog.
yeah but it wouldn't be any good!! you can't get better pap than this.
The papiest! You see a lot of pap artists out there but none can surpass the papiness of this pap.
Amy Goodman of Democracy. . . any . . . hang on . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . minute . . . now
Great one, IOZ. I laughed out loud several times on this one.
Just so we're clear... we do have democracy now, sadly yes. Democracy is the problem. Mainstream fools like GG think it's a solution, sometimes even the solution. Sure, I'll give him credit for occasionally smoking some of the red weed. But the man is mainlining blue heroin most of the time. Until you get past the idea -- carefully, endlessly insisted on in our progressive education centers -- that democracy good, you're still part of the problem. If you find yourself saying "you should write your Congressman about X", you're part of the problem.
Democracy is not good. It's not even neutral. Democracy is bad.
Leonard,
I can't tell if you're being snarky, so forgive me if I'm being obtuse, as I'm still waking up this morning.
To begin with, this isn't a democracy, it's ostensibly a republic and morelike a corporate oligarchy in truth. You claim that 'democracy is bad', but what are the preferable, viable alternatives? Monarchy? Some kind of benevolent totalitarianism?
Populist, constitutional democratic forms are messy, yes, and prone to corruption... but they're far from being the problem.
To be effective (and fair), these forms require active, populist and meaningful participation in their political processes... participation which goes beyond merely writing your Congressman.
Herein lies the problem and the root of so much of our disillusion with 'democracy'. We want a balanced and fair form of government but we *don't want to work for it*. There's a sense among many of us in the so-called '1st world' that it's the system that's failed -us-; I posit that perhaps it's us that's failed the system.
We bitch and moan about how unfair things are yet do so little to change them. We throw up our hands in 'helplessness' at making effective change; at the end of the day we don't even try.
How decadent of us.
It's always interesting to me that the most vital and energetic forms of populist democratic movements occur in places where conditions are so much worse than they are here. Look south of the border. There are a whole lot of places where organizing to lobby for environmental protections or fair labor practices gets you tortured or imprisoned or killed. Such lobbying here might cost you what? Some time and energy? Big deal.
'1st-worlders' feel such entitlement. We want what we want and we want it now, but God forbid we have to work for it. If someone doesn't hand it to us or do it for us, or if our efforts don't yield immediate results, well... the system must be broken.
Yeah, I know I'm preaching here, but I'm so tired of this privileged and apathetic attitude we all seem to labor under. Fact is we're spoiled and lazy. Again, this GG fellow might not be 'saving the world' but at least he's doing something about things, however small.
/Off Soapbox
"Doing something about things." And stuff about stuff!
Yeah, let's all look to Venezuela, an unglorified petro-state. Everyone loves welfare when they think they're going to be on the receiving end, but what exactly has gotten better for anyone, and where do they go when the wells pass peak and output capacity declines.
Bullshit on the highest order. Antonia Gramsci got it right: hegemony replaces hegemony. The poor bastards now struggling will be the plain old bastards later on. Progress is a 19th-century European philosophical parlor game that Americans picked up, as usual, a century too late, after it'd been thoroughly discredited by events. Then we claimed to have invented it.
Populism--pah! I'd rather be ruled by a dictator than a mob. At least you can throw eggs at a dictator. How can you take aim at millions?
oh America, whathaveyoudoneformelately?
and you're right, I am spoiled and lazy. but you're not worth working for, fucko. neither is some nebulous cloud of We. build your own goddamned Empire.
Wow. Nihilism upon nihilism. Nothing is worth doing! Nothing is ever improved! Evah!
Please. Convince yourself at your leisure. 40 hour workweek? Fire codes? Decent drinking water?
There is, in fact, a long list of things we take for granted, fellow 'fuckos', which were earned by folks who gave enough of a fuck.
It's so very chique to be all post-post-modern.
Venezuela? A bit. Chile? Nicaragua? El Salvador?
To claim that progress isn't worth working at because gains made aren't permanent is sort of like, well, rolling over and playing dead. To claim that all of progress is just some 19th century European parlor game is just dumb and I think you know that.
It's interesting and perhaps oddly telling that I'd need to *prove* that... that the elimination of slavery, say, is a good thing, or that serfdom sucked, or that improvements in basic health and safety standards are meaningless.
Real, practical progress is indeed real at times. I for one would be too embarassed to turn up my nose at *fucking everything* as some of my fellows here seem to do.
As to whether or not you find me or your 'nebulous We' worth working for, Mr. F, well... what the fuck ever.
"Decent drinking water?" The population growth enabled by modern science and industrialized agriculture, along with the toxic byproducts of said agriculture, mean that clean drinking water is a far off dream for most people in the Third world. Did you know that half the wells in Iowa are contaminated by chlor-based pesticides?
"It's interesting and perhaps oddly telling that I'd need to *prove* that... that the elimination of slavery, say, is a good thing, or that serfdom sucked, or that improvements in basic health and safety standards are meaningless."
Not been elimnated. It's just been shipped overseas where we don't have to see it. And, some of our bestest buddies in the world (the Saudis and Emirates, for example) have in no way eliminated serfdom and even slavery. If you read "Nickeled and Dimed", one could argue about how deeply it has been eliminated here.
"improvements in basic health and safety standards are meaningless."
Again-deoends on where. These standards are EXPENSIVE, and our glorious system gets around that by moving plants to countries where the Shirtwaist fire happens every day. we create so much waste here in consumertopia that there are entire cities whose residents make their livings climbing around the garbage recycling it. Has there really been a net improvement in the world?
Speed Limits are progress? lol. no wait, traffic signals. no wait, stop bars. mandatory seat belt laws! air bags! no cell phones while driving! oh me oh my! hang on folks we've got an Idealist!
lulz.
`still in a mothafucking car, Yo. there is no such thing as Progress. you're confusing the trappings of culture with a fundamental change in the human animal. you're confusing "fight" with "work."
we're still an Empire. it's what humans do. all that work that's required, eh? energize this: the motivated ones are the dangerous ones.
but I mean, by all means, keep fighting the good fight. you'll get it all worked out eventually.
and most of us are conditioned to take what we're given.
I like the 40-hr work week juxtaposed with the, uh, elimination of slavery. From each according to his ability! To each according to . . . uh, you're gonna have to talk to someone in HR.
Eh, I don't have a problem with Greenwald. Despite his internal block against where his evidence actually points to -- the fact that what he barks about are features of government, not bugs -- he's useful, at least as much as he fuels a rational cynicism. Philosophical arguments are cool and all, but as far as actually convincing people of the worthlessness of statism it's much simpler and more effective to point them to examples proving the rule.
Having said that...watching the video of him being shooed away by the cops was actually darkly amusing to me. I'm not one for stereotypes, but he nailed the "whiney, soft liberal" bit cold. The way he talks on his blog gives off an air of barely-contained, slightly self-righteous anger, but on camera it reminds me of a chihuahua after you snatch their chew toy.
show me a sanitary sewer line extension and I'll show you someone forced to tap in, at their own expense, several $k, despite having a perfectly (pre-sic-sic) capable septic system.
progress. fuck you.
Ahh right. So there's some slavery left, therefore there's been no progress on slavery.
Some of our drinking water is bad, and it's bad through much of the Third world, so fuck it... may as well give up on trying to keep it clean, or say that the efforts involved in trying to ensure clean water supplies have all been for naught.
Same with health/safety. Yeah there're sweatshops.
Come on, people... are you all being -willfully- obtuse? Saying that these conditions exist somewhere and to some degree doesn't speak *at all* to the fact that the --reason-- they don't exist *everywhere* to a terrible degree is that some people gave enough of a shit to do something about them.
We don't have passingly potable water and somewhat clean air in some places because our masters thought they'd do us a motherfucking favor. We have what (arguably) little we do have thanks to folks trying to change things.
I agree that much of what man thinks of as 'progress' really isn't. No shit. What I *am* saying is all this goddamned harrumphery is just people jerking off.
'Keep fighting the good fight'? I'm not starry eyed by any stretch. The point I'm trying to make is this: the reason there isn't a shitload of lead, or chlorine, or contamination in your mf'ing tapwater is because someone made sure of that. Some so-called and mocked Idealist thought that the metaphorical factory outside town shouldn't be able to dump chemical waste into your metaphorical groundwater. Dig?
What the fuck is so hard to admit about all of this?
The fact that some positive changes *can in fact* be made on the system, regardless of difficulty or degree is something to be derided?
Whatever, I guess.
The system's fucked up, yes, but it'd be even more so if no one tried to help fix it.
I don't see how the logic behind that assertion is questionable.
I do see a lot of attitude and sneering.
Yeah, it's not cool to be optimistic and to be honest I'm not. I think we're fairly fucked. I'm just trying to take a measured approach. The chances of everyone pitching in and getting involved are virtually nil. I know I probably won't do jack shit to help. I also know that a lot of other posters here won't either (seems a safe bet /snark).
It's fair to say however that anyone willing to give it a shot and try to help make something, anything better deserves my respect. Yours, too, really, unless you're a REAL cock.
Yeah yeah, this is a snark-blog. That said, the level of pomposity and exaggerated self-importance here gets so thick you can cut it with a knife.
mad lulz at the above anon continuing to talk about the changes in the water system and completely missing the point. Various technological advancements mean that we no longer have to die in droves to make cheap fabrics in toxic factories. That's what Vietnam, Sri Lanka, and Uganda are for. As you duly note, they aren't Americans and don't count towards our magical march onto PROGRESS~. But I'm sure with a few marches, we'll be on our way to handing over our great American power and influence to the developing world and helping them to stand on their own rather than force them to be dependent on us as consumers AMIRITE
Oh God, I'm just trying to talk about the potential for fucking positive change.
Jesus, I feel like I'm hanging out behind the high school auditorium sneaking cigarettes and dodging the principal with you people.
Oh fuck, I see the makings of an erin4abetteramerica. Anon, my dood, shit doesn't get better because .05% of the population (probably a very high figure) recognize things are fucked and act upon their convictions. Things happen when large portions of people get fucked and after a while realize that they've been... fucked and actually have the enough power to do something about it. A rare occurrence mind you. So rare, in fact, you can list the major points in a single response to a blog post. BUT, if you keep your eyes open, look wearee haaard, and only blink every twelve seconds you'll soon realize that policy does not change, only the form it is presented in does. For instance you brought up our heroic defeat of slavery, yet slavery has not died and as long as profit margins remain a great concern of our peapole it will continue. Slavery is still very much in existence, aboard in its traditional form, but even here. today. in America. However, the form has changed and the owners are no longer singular entities but a consortium of businesses operating under the guise of freedom for all! Next time you're at the local Micky Dees check out who's behind the counter and about half the customers. They are essentially slaves but no one owns them directly (that would be wrong). Instead they form a pool of labor. It is possible to escape this pool, but not likely. They get to go home at night, they get to choose what they eat and when they eat it. They are welcome to bathroom breaks and the ol' newport break if necessary (which many take up to receive such break and reduce the stress of being in their predicament, which is good because hopefully they'll die before the gov ment has to shell out some social security). These are form changes. What hasn't changed is the self-perpetuating cycle of slavery. They still give birth and we make sure that their children are just as downtrodden as their parents. We have even developed a great way to insure that some wacked teacher doesn't up and decide to teach the slave class anything, and as an added bonus they usually help struggling (what would be utterly defunct) white lower class towns create jobs (which means more McDs, maybe one day even a starbucks) and stay afloat. What are they called? Prisons! And glorious they are. Not only do they afford big business the right to use the imprisoned (able bodied men, yum!) to work for pennies without much protest, they also guaranfuckingtee that the previously incarcerated men won't ever be able to get any sort of decent job when they get out of the cell. Much to the delight of the consortium. Did I mention this was self-perpetuating? So, what has really changed is the slave owners have acquired less risk. They are a consortium that trades bodies. They no longer need to care about the health or state of those bodies because there exists a (do I need to say it again) self-(fucking, birthing, raising) perpetuating plentitude. They do not feed those bodies. They do not house those bodies.
The positives here are that the owners can no longer use acts of violence against the slaves but if someone gets out of line and goes ballistic there is a wonderful little force called the police that will have no trouble tasing, beating, and if need be, shooting the low down dirty criminal. There are many more windings, weaves, twists, turns, and hooks but I'm hoping you get the point. Understand this system of form change applies to many scenarios and is not just slave induced. I hope this helps you get off the dick (no offense IOZ this is just figurative talk) of hope and change and on the gravy train of cynical heartless no good scoundrels. Oh and remember, vote for nothing! Giving your consent away for free (it's actually a negative return for us because we have to leave our cold beer and warm jay in order to cast our meaningless vote) is a disgusting act.
Sorry I didn't break that into more paragraphs. It happened so fast I didn't realize it was so long... and I'm a dick.
The take-away here anon is that I can clean up the rivers and streams in my neighborhood, and canvass the city to have re-cycling (things I've actually done) and be satisfied knowing I did something...for me and my immediate neighbors.
This changes nothing about the system. The system is stacked highly against us. We've bought into the free-market, democratic, patriotic land of OZ crap. We are well and truly indoctrinated.
The only 'thing to do' is try to ignore the system (or use it to your advantage when you can), make small changes that help you and yours and hope it doesn't all cave in before you're in the ground.
Anything you may try to do at this point to rage against the machine is really futile, but cute.
But I think that IS what you are saying about the clean water thing, but didn't realize it. We can fight for standards in our community, but that ain't going to stop companies from buying the politicians, and it sure ain't going to raise the capital gains rate above 15%. It's not going to stop our war machine and it isn't going to change the goals of the empire.
Have a nice day!
The take-away here anon is that I can clean up the rivers and streams in my neighborhood, and canvass the city to have re-cycling (things I've actually done) and be satisfied knowing I did something...for me and my immediate neighbors.
keep that do-gooding shit offa my lawn!
*wink*
it all winds up in the land-fill anyway. at least here in Philly.
part and parcel of the human condition ain't gonna change no matter how many songs you sing, how many blog posts you write, or how many times you vote. it's as beautiful as is it disgusting and fucked. but at least it's real.
I sympathize with the Optimist Anon. I really do. After all, a few weeks ago I got beaten up by you lot because I was saying that, maybe, just maybe, Obama will be a better administrator than McCain would be.
Anyway, don't want to open that can of worms, but let me say that I do believe in progress, in better and worse, but I do not believe in its inevitability. In fact, I believe in entropy (which isn't hard--it's like a fact). Progress erodes, you see. And humanity's eternal dark side sees to that. We always want to dominate, have others do our work for us.
But improvement is possible. But it's not like freedom (which is almost always enjoyed by the masters) and slavery (which is almost always suffered by the citizens/workers/weak of the system). It's more like the difference between chattel slavery and personal servitude (in which one's children by a free person might be liberated, though the system). Oh, that seems like nothing to the master class, but it can be all the difference in the world to that slave.
Of course, I'm not going to fool myself and pretend that inching forward is striding. I always temper my opinion of current policy by my estimation of how far we could be going. How much we could be changing. How much we aren't. And fuck, I had to watch Biden rattle a saber at Russia a few nights ago, so I'm not really expecting much. I'm wondering how long it'll be before Obama escalates something to prove that he's willing to shed blood. Name the last president who didn't participate in that ritual.
8 year olds dude...
Like I said, I'm not going to call incremental change a victory, but it does fucking matter. Sure, I'd rather be free and get to do anything I'd want, but in the real world, sometimes your choices are between indentured servant and chattel slave.
Of course, should anyone be happy with that choice? No. But let's not get into some lazy "everything is the same as everything else" routine. I'm as happy as anyone to talk about human essentials, of the fact that all human civilization is built on suffering, that most social freedom rests on the lack of freedom of others, that human justice is really just a corruption or a dressing-up of vengeance and ancient games of torture. But all the same, there are distinctions, there is nuance. I'm not saying who's better than anyone else, but there it is. My argument's as simple as that. Some conditions are more comfortable than others. Or is even that disputed?
Don't sweat it, Optimist Anon. You're talking to a bunch of retarded assrascals who think The Big Lebowski was some kind of classic flick, you know?
Optimist Anon here.
It's nice to see some lively commentary here for a change. Thanks. Not really sweating it so much after a chance to get some sleep, but it's also nice to see I'm not the only voice here not getting off on their own angst.
What C said sort of crystallized something for me regarding incremental change. See, whether you subscribe to the 'Great Man' theory of history or not, the reality of life is that at the end of the day we're *just not that important* as individuals. Don't get me wrong... we can affect changes in small ways individually, but for the most part none of us here is going to be a King Jr. or a Marx or a Copernicus. That fact rubs some peoples' egos -raw-.
Most of us, whether we admit it or not, want the world to be a better place. A lot of the folks arguing with me in the replies above are themselves pissed off about how fucked the world is... just like me. Some might claim not to be but, well... you can hear it in their tone.
The thing is, we 1st-worlders just don't have the patience for incremental changes (3rd-worlders have more, arguably due to their having less creature comforts, but I'm getting off topic). We're tired, we feel isolated and quite often feel like no one else really gives enough of a shit. The media we absorb focuses on the powerful and their dealings, and rarely if ever on the small groups and the powerless out there actually making changes... and wind up feeling that there's *nothing* to be done, disproportionately so. We give up. What's the point?
The point is this: I posit that whatever small advances have been made in our collective history have *always been*, with the possible exclusion of a revolution from time to time, incremental.
Some here argue that *no advances* have been made, or that whatever have been, it's been due solely to technological advances rather than human ones. I call bullshit, but without getting hauled back into that one, I'll move on.
See, open a fucking history book. Have a look at the history of the US labor movement. Tell me those people made *no gains*, often in violent confrontations with power. Tell me that. Shit, go on and explain it to the rest of the class.
Just one example. Individually we're not able to do much... true. Collectively, well... it's possible. We may not be able to cure all the 'evils of the world' at once, *or ever*, but we can make changes. Ask yourself this: if we're so powerless here in the US, why does Washington feel the need to lie us into a pretext for war? Remember the Maine, The Gulf of Tonkin, WMD, etc. etc.
We're not powerless at all as a group. We're mostly powerless as individuals.
Truth is, snarky, disillusioned, privileged and self-important people that tend to sneer at others as their lessers generally aren't really the 'work with others' type. Which is fine. The world goes on without them.
See, open a fucking history book. Have a look at the history of the US labor movement. Tell me those people made *no gains*, often in violent confrontations with power. Tell me that. Shit, go on and explain it to the rest of the class.
Oooh, a fine choice! Yes, let's look at the US labor movement. It strived through whatever means necessary, including working alongside the mafia, to improve the plight of the American manufacturing worker. This kinda sorta worked in that labor bosses got lots of money, the mob made lots of money, and workers made a pretty decent sum of money as well. Then when it became possible to return to the days of yore when enviromental and labor laws were more lax by tossing those jobs out of the country, it occurred.
Today, the upper midwest is known as the "rust belt" and the home of America's automobile manufacturng, Michigan, is a vast wasteland with the forests retaking the city. Millions have fled the region, seeking homes in places like Arizona and Florida. Meanwhile, untold thousands of Chinese and Mexican workers bust ass to make America's goods for America in subpar conditions. This, my friend, is the "progress" you speak of.
I hate to double post, but there is just so much.
The thing is, we 1st-worlders just don't have the patience for incremental changes (3rd-worlders have more, arguably due to their having less creature comforts, but I'm getting off topic).
Ah yes, the developing and third worlds. A modicum of incremental change. Well, except for the fact that many of those nations are embroiled in wars supported/bankrolled in one fashion or another by Western powers. For every Namibia making baby steps of pwogwess, there are ten Sierra Leone's where thousands die for no good reason and nobody cares because they're brown.
Ask yourself this: if we're so powerless here in the US, why does Washington feel the need to lie us into a pretext for war? Remember the Maine, The Gulf of Tonkin, WMD, etc. etc.
A) because people are willing to believe it B) people who believe are people willing to fight, sacrifice, and die for even the most absurd of ideals or claims as long as they buy into it. Jim Jones wasn't the messiah, but he sure did a good job convincing people to drink poison.
lol.
yeah man we can blog at work an shit! (when we can get around the firewall). that's progress!
I may be an angry slave, but I'm still calmer than you are.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Angry Anon--that's a non-sequitur. "For every Namibia..." Just because the third world gets fucked again and again and again by the first doesn't mean that progress ain't possible at all. Just because your sandcastle gets kicked over doesn't mean you couldn't build a hell of a sandcastle.
Shit, it's unlikely, and there are bastards in this world (some of us are present right now), but you act like nothing has ever been done. Hell, if progress is possible in even one life (and it is), then it's possible, however un-fucking-likely, on a larger scale. Sure, we measure progress mostly in the distance between our actions and their consequences, but that doesn't mean that distinctions can't be made. All that we-are-all-the-same shit is no less reasonable when it comes from a nihilist's mouth than when I hear it from an idealist.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Angry Anon--that's a non-sequitur. "For every Namibia..." Just because the third world gets fucked again and again and again by the first doesn't mean that progress ain't possible at all. Just because your sandcastle gets kicked over doesn't mean you couldn't build a hell of a sandcastle.
Impossible? No. Possible right now with the current sociopolitical climate? Absolutely not. How many times must this be reviewed? Tomatoes in January and all the rest.
Shit, it's unlikely, and there are bastards in this world (some of us are present right now), but you act like nothing has ever been done.
We've shifted our black slaves to living in Africa, where they toil far away and can't scare the white folks except on the occasional news blurb of genocide. The ones we freed here? They're free to live in almost institutional poverty only as long as they're not in jail. Progress!
Yeah, US labor grew corrupt and largely ineffective. Totally negates any advances made, either temporary or permanent? How exactly? Tell a coal miner that the structural standards, emergency stations and ventilation systems he relies on and which his employer is federally mandated to upkeep and adhere to are useless. That because they're not more comprehensive and are sometimes neglected by illegal practices that they should be scrapped altogether.
Um... wtf?
Same with your argument about the Rust Belt. Jobs are outsourced, tariffs relaxed, 'Free Trade' deals pushed through, industries and communities left to rust. Fuck it. No sense in trying to stop it, right?
Where's the fucking logic here? What you're saying is that unless positive changes can be made *which are irrevocable* they're not worth making. The Labor movement's useless because it grew corrupt.
That's just stupid. It's called maintenance, man. When something starts to break down, you fix it, you don't swear it off. MY car needs maintenance, my kitchen knife needs sharpening, my clothes get threadbare... I fix or replace them, as do most sensible people. I don't walk to the store naked, gumming a whole loaf of bread I couldn't slice.
World's a messy place. Like all things it requires maintenance. We all understand this... we just wait on others to do the maintenance for us. Luckily, some folks are willing do perform it.
Regarding wars fought in the 3rd-world, sponsored by Western powers and all that shit.... yeah, no shit. I'm familiar. Again, corruption and imperfections in a system or a country or a part of the planet doesn't negate any hope of improvement... that's absurd. World's a real place, not some collection of ideals. Again, it's dirty and imperfect and in need of care.
Regarding war... yeah, people tend to believe all sorts of crap, are willing to fight for it and all that.
My point is that Power is forced to lie so often because at the end of the day the real power lies in the hands of the masses, not the politicians. We've arguably 'socially evolved enough' as a species, at least in some parts, to *require* them to lie to get us to do their bidding. If they told us the truth we'd tell them to fuck off, and they know that.
Vietnam was the first real war (and the last) to be broadcast into our living rooms in a somewhat uncensored state. Yeah yeah, I know about Operation Rolling Thunder, I know that Mai Lai was a single example of a widespread, intentional strategy, and I know it gets worse from there. Still... the protest movement put enough pressure on Washington to pull the plug *only after* middle America joined the DFHs against the war. This is why they don't show you the coffins coming back from Iraq, and why journalists there are all 'embedded', etc etc... why the war is so heavily censored. If people were faced with what they're doing in our name, they wouldn't be able to do it. This wasn't always the case in human history, but more importantly it's because *it's the people* who have the actual power.
It bears mentioning... the protests against the Vietnam war really didn't begin in force until after the war had been going on for some -years-. The protests and marches against this Iraq war/invasion occurred, for the first time in our history, *before* the war began. The happened in large numbers here in the US, grossly underreported in the press. Again, that's a first.
That says something. Even we spoon-fed narcissistic Americans are beginning to learn and wake up about what's really going on. We started this post by bashing GG...
... by bashing GG for his work.
Thing is, folks like him, folks who give a shit and try... they're the reason we dumb-ass Americans are beginning to wake up, no matter how slowly.
Apologies on the length.
Where's the fucking logic here? What you're saying is that unless positive changes can be made *which are irrevocable* they're not worth making.
Yeah! It's just like in school, where teachers always told you, "If you can't get a hundred on an exam, fuck it. Just turn in a blank page and get a big fat zero."
It's hilarious that the only thing at all the nihilists can get passionate about is being defensive about how correct they are to say it's all vanity. If they really had the plums for full-on nihilism, you'd think even that would be energy better spent on whacking off or popping pills.
*scans the cube*
Anondudes/Anondudettes: this is the internet. at work.
you are here by way of FAIL.
you will also direct your attention to.
*sigh*
My point is that Power is forced to lie so often because at the end of the day the real power lies in the hands of the masses, not the politicians.
Seriously? Seriously? Bubbalook, at the end of the day, the real power lies in the microbes, or the solar flares, or the tectonic plates.
BTW, when I did advocate action, I was accused of being an asshole for discomforting stiffs like yahself.
You know who's working for change? Al Qaeda.
yeah.
Yeah, US labor grew corrupt and largely ineffective. Totally negates any advances made, either temporary or permanent? How exactly?
Because no one is tearing up the earth of Central PA for anthracite anymore. They do it in China where tunnels collapse and kill staggering sums of them.
Same with your argument about the Rust Belt. Jobs are outsourced, tariffs relaxed, 'Free Trade' deals pushed through, industries and communities left to rust. Fuck it. No sense in trying to stop it, right?
The system depends and is based on cheap labor producing goods. It cannot be separated from that. Thus, change can't occur until going to Wal-Mart is either economically unsound or impossible.
The rest of your little talk is nonsense. Half of America (or more) tells the system to "fuck off" every general election by not even bothering to vote.
Again, corruption and imperfections in a system or a country or a part of the planet doesn't negate any hope of improvement.
An empire is an empire is an empire. Deny all you want! Write more words! BLAAAAWWWWGGGGG
Angry Anon:
"Possible right now with the current sociopolitical climate? Absolutely not."
Oh yeah. To be an American at this point in history is so hard. God, it must be like being black in the 1920s or 1950s. Or an Indian under the British raj. Jesus Christ! We have more access to information and communication with our fellow citizen who may be as stubborn and ignorant as we are, sure, but they're not enslaved. The lack is in will, not in capability!
"Oh, the current sociopolitical climate..." Give me a break. Is political organization harder now than it has ever been? No. Name an easier time to mobilize. You act as if there were ages when people cared about justice simply as a matter of course.
And incidentally, I find that post IOZ linked to touching. Because it's true. Those students weren't scared at all of repercussions. You see, they could have tried to stop that violent act and, unlike the Chinese, they wouldn't have ended up in labor camps. They probably wouldn't have even been charged with something that could affect their future employment history. The white American middle class student doesn't fear for his livelihood when he doesn't object to abuse of power. It's that he doesn't care.
"Sociopolitical climate." Fuck, you say that as if it isn't something we create. It's not that we can't. It's that so many don't want to.
I enjoy constantly being the "angry anon" in lieu of these super massive responses attempting to justify such positions. But that is okay.
Oh yeah. To be an American at this point in history is so hard.
Given that I have no idea how this sentence or what follows ties in with the thread that was going on about how America isn't going to do anything substantial about the third world, I am uncertain how to reply. Meanwhile, you should go to the housing projects and tell people they have it very easy.
The white American middle class student doesn't fear for his livelihood when he doesn't object to abuse of power. It's that he doesn't care.
Well, isn't that a revelation! How can this be??? Someone tap Kos and see if he's got an answer.
apathy as political efficacy.
I'm sated.
Hey, I was just joking about the Angry Anon. I simply wanted to distinguish you from the other person whose name we don't know.
So Anon, my statement about American political ability was in response to your statement (I quoted, didn't I?) that the current sociopolitical climate was not conducive to progress.
So I called you out and basically asked "As compared to what other era?" If you grant, as I appreciate, that progress is possible, then why is it particularly hard now?
And of course, I did not mean to include America's teeming poor. Certainly we have our brutalized masses here. But then, we also have some uppity citizens with time and money on their hands, too, don't we? And yet the best they can do is read Daily Kos all day and vote Democratic, or maybe become a libertarian and do something on which I'm not entirely clear.
Anyway, if progress is possible, but not now, then when? If not here, then where? Or perhaps it is you and me who decide the climate, and maybe we actually like things this way?
Oh no, that possibility is too much to consider. Let's just shrug and say that America is practically Nazi Germany, and we're all powerless to stop whatever it is that we definitely don't agree with.
Go postmodern all you want. This is Kitty Genovese on a wide scale, and there's only so much blame we can avoid.
So Anon, my statement about American political ability was in response to your statement (I quoted, didn't I?) that the current sociopolitical climate was not conducive to progress.
Its impossible to answer that question because "progress" isn't exactly defined. If by "progress" you mean making America the Great Empire of Wub, welllllll.
Anyway, if progress is possible, but not now, then when?
A hundred years from now? A thousand? Who the hell knows? "When everything falls apart and needs to be rebuilt" seems like a good answer. I have a feeling it is not the one you seek.
In the meantime, I'll be leaving in about an hour to go sit at the cottage, staring at the lake. Perhaps I will mull over the upcoming reign of Pharoah Obama and his annointing as the incarnation of Horus this upcoming January over a bottle of chianti. Or I'll watch people getting hit in the groin with footballs on America's Funniest Home Videos. Whichever.
yeah, live with it, or don't. just as progress ticks along (sic), as you say, we settle into these arrangements. most of us don't want to fight. most of us are tired an shit. we do create our own bogeymen. we do create our own problems.
you can always smoke weed and drink wine, which can be helpful.
and somehow I can't help but think that copping a buzz and chilling out by a lake as the best example a person can set. I'd call that progress.
This is what I think: Heavens to Murgatroyd
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