Friday, October 17, 2008

The Good Ship Conservatania

I love me some Larison:

This is something that I didn’t elaborate on last night, but the idea that the message of Spread The Wealth would be a political loser at the present time is bizarre, which makes McCain’s insistence on identifying Obama as the “spread the wealth” candidate even more bizarre. I mean, does McCain want to get crushed in a landslide? Let’s think about this. There is an economic downturn coming on the heels of an era of wage stagnation and growing economic inequality, the financial sector has imploded thanks to the combined blunders of government and holders of concentrated wealth and Obama’s use of a phrase that on its own could easily be mistaken for an expression of neo-Harringtonian distributism is supposed to be politically radioactive? Consolidation of power, concentration of wealth and centralism all stand condemned for having created the present fiasco, and there is supposed to be a political downside to talking about distributing wealth?
He goes on to wonder how conservatives forgot that the argument for free markets over welfare-state planning was precisely that it more equitably and unbiasedly distributed wealth in society, and especially throughout the broad middle class. Capitalism combined with limited constitutional government was defended as an antidote to aristocracy and oligarchy. I happen to believe that this argument, particularly in the American context, was profoundly ahistorical, but it had an internal logic and consistency, and although it was wrong, it could be made in basic good faith by its believers. Certainly Larison is right to point out that any conservative appeal to a middle class rests squarely on the ability to argue that a conservative economic program will prove more favorable to their economic fortunes than a program of liberal redistribution which (whether true or not) favors the poor and jobless over the hard-working, upright classes.

But like Larison says: when you live in a time of stagnating or declining real wages, and when the value of owned (or mortgaged property) is likewise in stagnation or decline; when actual inflation (as opposed to "core inflation") is on the rise due to a weak currency and high energy, food, and utility costs; when payrolls are contracting and unemployment increasing; when an implosion in the financial sector is beginning to reduce retirement savings and pinch the fortunes of the upper middle class (i.e. the educated, "professional classes" of doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, administrators, upper managers, etc.); then positioning yourself as the candidate who opposes "spreading the wealth" smells of remarkable incompetence.

It's another example of how McCain's infelicity precludes the dual-message communication that's been the modus operandi of his faction for decades. He wants to signal to his fervent base that this Obama character is a Marxist-communist along the "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" line while suggesting more mildly to the broad swath of non-ideological voters, the folks who don't actually pay much attention to politics in the off years, that he's gonna tax them out the wazoo and give their money to bad, poor people. Even in difficult economic times, there are ways to do that. McCain's just not fast enough on his feet. He's like a game of Telephone within a single mind; having heard something once, he repeats it to himself again and again, changing it slightly each time, until what emerges from his mouth in public is changed entirely.

Obama, meanwhile, is doing what it is that successful politicians do--namely, telling people what they want to hear. He is going to get us out of Iraq, get bin Laden, help the middle class, build an electric car, stop outsourcing, raise wages, help small business, blah blah blah. He says these things plainly and often, never straying far from his set-piece oratory. McCain's attempt to paint himself and his running mate as "mavericks" and "reformers" is dumb and doomed not because they're unconvincing in those roles, but because people do not actually care about "reform" or "getting rid of the old boys network." If they did, incumbency wouldn't be so reliable a predictor of victory in elections. Prompted with questions about "Washington" and "the way things are done" and "the tone of politics," people will of course respond that they find it all regrettable and that they disapprove. The idea that this constitutes motivational opinion is wrong, silly really. People care about their paychecks and their bills, and if you can successfully reassure them that the former will increase and the latter decline, then for the most part they'll go along with just about any other bullshit that comes out of your mouth.

62 comments:

Mr.Fundamental said...

Those rich fucks! This whole fucking
thing-- I did not watch my buddies
die face down in the muck so that
this fucking strumpet--

Lady, I got buddies who died face-
down in the muck so that you and I could
enjoy this family restaurant!

Hey Dude, don't go away man!
Com'on, this affects all of us man!

Our basic freedoms!

IOZ said...

It's like asking why the faithful quote the Bible, ya know?

Mr.Fundamental said...

8 year olds, Dude.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Fuckingmental, the Lebowski-bot. Somebody reboot that dumb bastard, he's boring.

Mr.Fundamental said...

calmer than you are.

IOZ said...

This . . . this isn't combat.

Mr.Fundamental said...

What's this "day of rest" shit?!
What's this bullshit, I don't
fucking care! It don't matter to
Jesus! But you're not fooling me man!
You might fool the fucks in the league
office, but you don't fool Jesus!
It's bush league psych-out stuff!
Laughable, man! HA HA!

bonecrusher said...

"If conservatives cede distributist language to left-liberals, they are not only abandoning an important part of their intellectual and political tradition, but they are also surrendering their ability to speak on behalf of middle-class Americans and they appear to be giving up on the idea that a relatively more free market system can better distribute wealth than a welfarist system organized by the central government."

See, if the only member of the Conservative Pantheon were Hayek, this might be plausible. But when you see Burke standing next to that creep, you realize that the argument that a "free market system can better distribute wealth" was never made in good faith in the first place. They knew all the time that "free markets" are just the modern way of crowning a king.

Thomas Daulton said...

beginning to reduce retirement savings and pinch the fortunes of the upper middle class (i.e. the educated, "professional classes"

Dudes, (IOZ and Larrison), my parents were not even "upper managers" before they retired a few years ago, but their retirement funds have already dropped something like 20% by now. That's more than a pinch.

But all that this McCain turn-of-phrase really shows is that he is still talking to his [rapidly vanishing] voter base, not necessarily that his mind has gone.

Slacktivist has explained that the "Left Behind" Fundamentalists believe so fervently in the prophesy that the Antichrist will masquerade as a peace-maker, that they attack anyone who proposes peace, and side with any proposal for blood-n-guts war. Similarly, the dead-ender reactionary free-market conservatives are so convinced that individual greed leads to prosperity, that they view all sharing as its opposite, larceny. Nobody could ever honestly want to share wealth, they reason, {looking in their mirrors}, and so anyone who says so is proving that they want to rob you, Q.E.D. That's the economic argument which McCain is [ineptly] trying to tap into.

Combine those two groups, religious + economic fundies, with war hawks, and you basically have the entirety of the McCain campaign. Unfortunately my parents also fall within those first two groups, one in each. So they're lapping up every word McCain says. The dog whistle is still working just fine.

Justin said...

McCain sounds like a Charles Manson free associative rant sometimes, like when he says that all he will have multiple priorities cause we are Americans and we are the best damn importers, exporters and producers in the free world.

"I'm bigger than the sun and burning on the roach porch, man! Cause Jesus is coming and we are all falling down so don't take my word for it, you will see! I'll take a hatchet and a scalpel!"

TGGP said...

they view all sharing as its opposite, larceny.
Right, if you actually walked up to them and offered to share your own wealth with them they would back away horrified. Or by "sharing" did you mean taking wealth (ill-gotten or not) from them?

Thomas Daulton said...

No, I meant what I said. I know several who, when I say "Hey let's go out for pizza and beer on me," tend to reply, with a grimace, "No, no, let's go dutch, I don't want to owe you anything."
That's a minor, totally harmless example, but I think it's indicative of a person who has taken Ayn Rand, John Nash, Friedrich von Hayek the way that fundamentalists read their Bibles... they really believe that anytime someone offers generosity or co-operation without money changing hands, it's just a foot in the door to take something more valuable away from the victim later, in one fashion or another.
This is just pure trivia when we're talking about pizza, but you are basically right that my point is less about me sharing than them. These people reap the benefits of a well-run, liberal society and then steadfastly refuse to believe that any expenditure of tax money on the public good could possibly have any benefit for them personally.
Self-sufficiency is a virtue, sure, but some people take individualism to such an absurd height that they act, politically, as if "The government should stay out of health care because, hey, I can afford health insurance, so even if bubonic plague sweeps the 45 million uninsured in this country, I'll be totally unaffected;" "Public schools are a waste of money because me and my business will do just fine even if the country consigns millions of people into an uneducated, unemployed underclass (my company will find educated employees and consumers, I dunno, somewhere, they've always been there in the past)." Public transportation is evil, everyone should get a car or stay home. Literally, I swear, I've actually heard, "Carpool lanes are exactly the same as robbery because everyone pays for them in taxes but only a few people can use them." Yeah, and handicapped people should pay for their own access ramps because that's taking my tax dollars for a benefit that I don't use. They mouth the slogan "a rising tide lifts all boats," but only if that tide comes from the private sector, not the evil gubmint. There's only one legitimate use of public monies in their opinion; and that, of course, is the military (to bomb scary, swarthy foreigners into submission) and police (to bludgeon those pothead kids next door and keep those retarded homeless people from asking me for money on the street; if not used for those kinds of purposes, police are jackbooted agents of repression). "We're all in this together -- except for me."

Black Sea said...

In fairness to Larison, he says that, "In theory, a true believer in an unfettered market would hold that his economic model more equitably and efficiently creates and then spreads the wealth, . . . "

"Creates" is an important part of the argument.

As regards McCain, I don't watch the debates or follow what they say/do on TV, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got spooked by the poll numbers showing him closing on Obama, and decided to spread the poison around. Would you want to become president in '09?

Rojo said...

I've been getting such pleasure out of the hilarious incompetence of the McCain campaign that it's made me worry that I harbor some secret Obama sympathies.

Especially as I did not receive this much pleasure out of the incompetence of the Kerry campaign. In my defense, however, the Kerry campaign was far less hilarious in its incompetence.

Exhibit_B said...

Shorter TDaulton: My friends are a bunch of creepy assholes.

Thomas Daulton said...

Yes, and they're the people who are planning on voting for McCain.

Thank you for summarizing my point more cogently than I was able to.

Christopher M. said...

But all that this McCain turn-of-phrase really shows is that he is still talking to his [rapidly vanishing] voter base, not necessarily that his mind has gone.

I don't see why these options have to be mutually exclusive.

b-psycho said...

Mutual misinterpretation.

That's what drives the entire back and forth between politicians sounding "reform" themes & politically vague citizens that mouth "throw the bums out" rhetoric. The politicos are doing little more than saying "put us in charge, we won't be like them!" with the knowledge that they are lying, while Joe Undecided knows he doesn't like the political system as it actually functions but doesn't realize yet WHY. After all, if he did, he'd know it screwing most people over was a feature, not a bug, and the "throw the bums out" would be followed by "...and don't replace them".

TGGP said...

If we're talking personal giving, then I'd note that the evil religious right gives more in terms of both money (and not merely to religious organizations) and blood. As a non-voting Stirnerite paleo-libertarian atheist who does not give charitably though, I'll be glad to bear the blame for what they've been accused of.

Anonymous said...

"Public schools are a waste of money because me and my business will do just fine even if the country consigns millions of people into an uneducated, unemployed underclass (my company will find educated employees and consumers, I dunno, somewhere, they've always been there in the past)."

Oh dear. This sentence fails on so many levels it's frightening--- I wonder if they resist your taking them out for pizza because they don't want to owe you or because they're just looking for a lemmeouttahere.

If they had to listen to stuff like that (how public schools are doing companies favors by educating consumers) they probably wouldn't have much of an appetite anyway.

Anonymous said...

Uh-oh, IOZ's gonna be all jealous over the attention Digby's getting.

Mr.Fundamental said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr.Fundamental said...


I resent - or resemble - take your pick, the notion that I need to be forced into complying with acts of generosity or sharing or kindness. there are plenty of options and opportunities to do good in this society, without the use of coercion. I wouldn't wish governmental services on the saddest mope in North Philly.

Thomas Daulton said...

I wonder if they resist your taking them out for pizza because they don't want to owe you or because they're just looking for a lemmeouttahere. If they had to listen to stuff like that (how public schools are doing companies favors by educating consumers) they probably wouldn't have much of an appetite anyway.

You will kindly note that I never said I preach this stuff to them. The reality is that they preach exactly that kinda lecture which I quoted, to me. As some kind of argument that I should vote for McCain. Generally I restrict my flaming liberal polemics to the Internet where people are actually, supposedly, interested in discussing such subjects, in other words, _B_L_A_W_G_!_!

Mr. Fundamental: there are plenty of options and opportunities to do good in this society, without the use of coercion. I wouldn't wish governmental services on the saddest mope in North Philly.

We can respectfully disagree on this point, but you can't convince me that a technological urban society with a gigantic population like ours can exist without taxes and Federal, Local, and State governments doing things which neither charity nor business are gonna do. I have no doubt that you perform a lot of community services yourself, Mr. Fun., but when was the last time you got out your welder's kit and replaced that rusty truss on that dangerously spalling overpass? When the alternatives are limited to either: crappy government services, or no services at all, I'll pick the crappy government services every time. And frankly a lot of government services aren't nearly as crappy as conservatives make them out to be, if you're not too proud to live without prestigious brand names. So tell me again how liberals are elitists?

Of course, in a few weeks from now, when our fiat currency collapses, corpses pile up in the streets of major cities and the entire American population is reduced to tiny rural communities struggling against each other with local overlords and neighborhood militias, then in that situation I'll believe that society can run on the Free Market and individual charity, and I assure you I won't pine for taxes and the Feds one bit.

Mr.Fundamental said...

most of the time the Municipality that I work for subs out the more difficult work to PEOPLE WHO ARE FUCKING CAPABLE OF DOING IT. WHOSE JOB IT IS TO WELD JOINTS AND PLACE LARGE PIECES OF PIPE AND REFACE A STONE HEADWALL. sure the Municipal forces can pour some conrete and lay 18 inch pipe, but THEY'RE NOT REBUILDING THE OVERPASS. we might get dibs on the design, but we might also sub it out to someone whose specialty is actually designing overpasses. in case you weren't aware, MY COMPANY ALSO WINS AWARDS FROM VARIOUS DOT'S AND TRANSIT AGENCIES FOR MAJOR DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS. gee, how would we do it otherwise? WHY DO YOU THINK MOST PEOPLE SHY AWAY FROM WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT, AND AIM FOR PRIVATE WORK? because you get better work, more knowledgeable people to work with and for, your incentive is right there in front or you, and you get rewarded for it. you want to take one for the team? that's on you, not me. how difficult a concept is this? Jesus died for my sins? well, he was an idiot.

I have friends and family that live in places where they pay a private company to collect trash every week. how do they manage? the horror.

we get police, trash and recycling from the city on my block. that's it. I'm thankful they don't provide much more. somehow I can imagine them taking a plow down our street and half the cars parked along it with it.

you must recycle, right? well we used to collect and drop off our own recyclables when I was growing up. it was not required, we did it because we felt it was the right thing to do. we even had a compost in our back yard. oh, but get this, we used to get a ticket every so often if we left the car parked on the street, with some asinine code section referenced on the stub. fitting, right?

so fuck you and your shitty governmental services. I hope government starves and dies off.

Thomas Daulton said...

Ehhhhhh, given recent financial events, you may not have long to wait.

And in the past on this blog, I have expressed the opinion that the looming collapse might not be a bad thing. So calm down, my friend! Well, at least I got something out of you besides Lebowsky...

[Side note to Anon 2:57: as mentioned, it's the Rand/Nash/Hayeck type people who are always eager to expound their philosophy to me, certainly at least as much as the reverse...]

So Mr. Fun., apparently we share a profession. Actually I recently moved from private Civil Engineering into a governmental job in part because I was sick of getting underpaid and stiffed on benefits -- now I'm only underpaid -- but that's neither here nor there. (As far as "most people shy away" from government work, guess where the majority of the country's job growth has come from during these past eight years of massvie layoffs? Again, given the choice between crappy government jobs, and no jobs at all...)

But I'm just curious. We were talking about taxes, weren't we? So if nobody paid taxes, who would commission and pay for the bridges in the first place?

I don't commute anymore, but when I was working as a Civil Engineer for a large firm in Southern California, I had my choice to get to work, between a public highway and a private toll road. I assure you, if my only choice was the toll road each day, I'd never be able to afford to commute far enough to work at the big firm, I'd be forced to take a much, much more limited job in my local area. That, among other things, is my experience with privatization.

That's not necessarily a bad thing -- again I'd likely have been underpaid, but with better benefits -- but my point is that large-scale infrastructure, and large-scale corporations which are so big that only a government has a prayer of keeping an eye on them, are a part of the American lifestyle today, and responsible for many aspects of our quality of life. Your philosophy would probably work great if all of America was living in only small, isolated self-sufficient communities (allowing some trade between them), but that situation does not exist at present. That's no knock against the small-town, face-to-face lifestyle, but you might want to consider bringing about the move to self-sufficiency and the population breakup in an orderly manner before you burn away the glue -- taxes and government -- which holds our current nation together at the seams.

Or, like I say, you could just wait a few more weeks and let the economic collapse handle that aspect for you...

Mr.Fundamental said...

I hold more allegiance to my corporate engineering firm than I do any such thing as America. take that any way you like.

Thomas Daulton said...

Your prerogative, actually I don't really have any objection to that.

Brian said...

As someone who works for government agency, including managing contracts for said government agency, I lack your faith in the precious private sector. Plenty of incompetence to go around.

Mr.Fundamental said...

haha yeah I'm with ya on that one, too. some crazy lazy and incompetent fuckers wherever you are. the chain of command bullshit runs a little stronger on the public side though. I don't do bosses well. oh well, whatever.

blawgggg g g g g g g.

Joyful Alternative said...

A friend was a civil engineer for the state DOT with the job of supervising the contractors. Over the years of catching thin concrete, missing steel beams, and the like, he formed the attitude that they were crooks who'd cut any corners they could get away with.

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