There is perhaps nothing so funny in the world of crazy religions as a cult of neo-Calvinism in Seattle, of all places. Mark Driscoll's affected schoolboy masculinity and over-compensatory disdain for "feminization" and "limp wrists" and so forth and so on suggest a man who will never get over the shame of having sucked a cock or two in high school. Anyway, the laff line:
Driscoll’s New Calvinism underscores a curious fact: the doctrine of total human depravity has always had a funny way of emboldening, rather than humbling, its adherents.Would you call this a "curious fact"? You mean that absolution from responsibility and moral culpability via belief in predestination will encourage men to behave with hubris? Shocking. Just shocking.
24 comments:
The real serious Calvinist is Fred Phelps. I might have pointed this out here before, but check out Your Pastor is a Whore. So is this dude.
Then again, what kind of men are they in the first place if got led astray by predestination?
I'm trying to imagine Elmer Fudd or Daffy Duck whining about how they were all ready to drop an anvil on Bugs Bunny but got ran off a cliff instead.
Nope. Can't do it. Uh-uh. Nope.
It's always the victims fault.
Ay-yup. Yep. Yep. Yep.
It's not just a belief in predestination, it's also the doctrine of election. Of course, this country was settled on such ideas. That and bundling.
Despite the belief that they are already either saved or damned, and nothing he says or they do will make a goddamn bit of difference, those people return each week to stare dead-eyed at his fat face across seven screens.
Oh, and check out their website dedicated to their study of the Song of Songs:
http://www.peasantprincess.com/
An anthropomorphic, very cut tree gyrates to some thumpa-thumpa music, pink deer frolic together...well check it out for yourself.
I've lost my belief in any deity but still believe in predestination. Free-will is just nonsense.
Wow, and there was that demographic sitting there all this time, with no one to hoover their cash but Toby Keith and aging Republicans. Say what you want about the horrible message--as a marketing idea, it's fucking brilliant.
K (as brilliant as Christian rock?)
There seems to be a very conservative strain in the Seattle area that's increasingly hostile to gays, and Seattle's generally "unchurched" nature and socially liberal attitude in general. Ken Hutcherson, pastor of Antioch Bible Church in Kirkland, tends to keep himself in the headlines to a greater degree than Driscoll and Mars Hill, generally by being more outwardly angry and seeking to pressure local institutions, like the state government and Microsoft, to toe his line.
Run-of-the-mill conservatives, I think, tend to find both Mars Hill and Antioch Bible too strident for their tastes. I know a few conservative Christians who attended Mars Hill once, and only once, and Antioch repeatedly draws fire for shoring up the idea that Evangelicals commonly promote unity in their faith community through fear-mongering and hating those are not like them.
"On a Sunday [...], Hutcherson was preaching on gender roles. During his sermon, Hutcherson stated, 'God hates soft men' and 'God hates effeminate men.' Hutcherson went on to say, 'If I was in a drugstore and some guy opened the door for me, I'd rip his arm off and beat him with the wet end.'"
Anthony Robinson. "Articles Of Faith: Ridiculing gay men is hateful way to preach." Seattle Post-Intelligencer. 22 February, 2008.
Sorry, TGGP, I've tried believing in predestination (I think you mean determinism, actually), but I'm biologically programmed to believe in free will. I can't help it, it's in my genes. Or I'm predestined to believe in it, or whatever.
predestination is cool, but those cancel flights piss me off big time.
I took a slightly different take on this nonsense over at the Defeatists this morning, although with basically the same take -- the inherent logical contradictions in a faith of rigid predestination, which is Calvin, should result in total quietism. You're going to go to heaven, or hell, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. OK, so the upside for being good is...nothing. The downside to being evil is...nothing.
Well, sheeeiiittt as we used to say on Beacon Hill, one of those blue collar enclaves that this guy came from. I'm just gonna sit here and mirror Ecclesiastes.
Interesting that the most Christian of Christian types are most excited about a cult of just giving in; women are to be subservient to men; men to the leader; and the leader channels god. Hmmm...cult-like behavior equals cult to me. I'm picturing the next Jonestown somewhere near Snoqualmie pass, where instead of Kool Aide they use Frappacinos to distribute the poison.
Seriously, this guy reminds me of Cave in Vidal's Messiah...
So which contributions to the BEAST'S 50 Most Loathsome list were yours, IOZ?
The good part is that when all those predestined assholes fly up to Heaven during the Rapture, we can get the salvage rights to their precious metals parts.
The desperation of these software engineers and temp job drones is amusing. I am a MAN. GOD DEMANDS I BE A MANLY MAN.
God. I wonder if one of the main theme songs during the services is a punk rock version of Macho, Macho Man?
I would agree with them on one thing: Contemporary Christian music is imho one of the absolutely lamest musical forms out there (after Japanese pop). My God, that crap is awful.
If they're so worried about looking like a bunch of pussies, then they ought to study their Nietszche.
Then they can be eternally recurring pussies.
Is that a hard man cut (at 1:22) that Driscoll dude is sporting?
the fight club reference is only too good. what was it an allegory for again? some issue old chucky boy had, i think?
Well, Christians react to the knowledge that good is more powerful then evil and destined to win in the end by panicking about how the slightest moral lapse is going to lead society straight to hell.
Nothing those people do makes a damn bit of sense.
As snake oil salesman go--and let's face it, ALL peddlers of religiosity are snake oil salesmen--I find Driscoll refreshing in some ways. At least his interpretation of Calvinism undermines the religious right's "born again" gimmicks. And Calvinism has historically been hostile to political leaders, which speaks well of it.
grumpy: except, of course, when the Calvinists are themselves "leaders," then the executions and the mandatory requirements abound.
I would agree that Calvinism, in some respects, makes more sense than born-againism, but it also makes the Christian God even more of a monster unworthy of worship. Which is why I sorta vacillate between agnosticism/atheism and feeble gnosticism-'cause Jehovah is a nasty piece of work.
Mainstream religionists are just too dense to figure out that free will is not possible with an all powerful, all knowing god. Calvinists at least realize this.
Mainstream religionists are just too dense to figure out that free will is not possible with an all powerful, all knowing god.
Mmm, I dunno bout dis. I could just as easily say that a syncretic mainstream belief in a God who, while praised in the panegyrics as omnipotent, is in fact limited in certain attributes due to his allowance of free will in men is far more coherent and certainly more practically applicable in the moral and spiritual life of worshippers than a belief in absolute predestination. Or, I could say simply that the ages-old debate over the question of God's omniscience vs. Man's free will is, like Xeno's Arrow or Which Came First Chicken Or Egg, a fun puzzle in logic and paradox, but meaningless as a philosophical matter, since god, omniscient, omnipresent, or otherwise, is imaginary and does not exist.
>since god, omniscient, omnipresent, or otherwise, is imaginary and does not exist.
I think you forgot to add "free will" (at least in the sense it's usually defined) to that list.
except, of course, when the Calvinists are themselves "leaders," then the executions and the mandatory requirements abound.
That's the bit that's always confused me the most - if you believe in predestination, what the fuck is the point of that shit?
Post a Comment