This little item came along, happily, as I was pondering the dissociation of consciousness that my incurable-Obamaphile friends seem to be practicing. They won't actually defend any of the things I enjoy mentioning to them -- rocket attacks on Pakistani villages, for example. But there's a look on their faces that suggests I'm somehow being pedantic, or silly, or rude.Whether progressive or soi-disant leftist or some other minor form in the Linnean bestiary of willful complicits, there is a marked tendency, when confronted with the indefinable nature and ultimate futility of popular notions of progress, to throw up the American Civil Rights movement as a sort of ultimate trump argument--The Most Benighted Minority, through soul-force satyagraha and a few lucky turns with Les Suprèmes, making marked improvement in their collective life-station. I am reminded of Sartwell's apt moniker: Martin Luther King with a nuclear arsenal. Which is to pose a question about the nature of progress, the nature of success. Blacks now have the option of "success," such that Condi Rice and Colin Powell and, more yet, Barack Obama can terrorize Pakistani tribesmen and render tender bodies to other nations for torture.
This is why I'm sometimes tempted to argue that people like Obama are actually worse than people like Bush, at least for the moral character of liberals. Back when Bush was kidnapping and torturing pro imperio, my liberal friends were quite willing to deplore these things. But now that Obie is doing it, it's sorta tacky to bring it up in good society, and there seems to be a tacit agreement that it would be asking far too much to demand that he stop it.
-The Genuine Mister Smiff
Meanwhile, of those not fully coopted into the imperial system, can we really say, they're better off? Let's define our terms. Is a young black man living in Anacostia or West Baltimore or Homestead really living a less constrained life? Were more killed per capita by Southern lynch mobs, or is that far outstripped by the endemic urban street violence that came with the prohibitory drug-war regime? Aren't more in prison now than then?
Notions of progress and those who disseminate them stubbornly resist examining the premises of progress because perceived gains are so often revealed as counterbalancing equal losses. You know, change, to take the current talisman, isn't an unfettered good; it largely exists any kind of qualitative, good-bad judgments we might make anyway.
33 comments:
I wonder if there isn't some segment of Black society in between unemployed-young-man-in-Anacostia and Condi Rice that you're missing.
You're such a romantic.
Hmmm... I remember Matt Yglesias disavowing violence as a political means. Strongly. After that, a few lib bloggers aren't happy with continued violence, le diggs comes to mind, as does Greenwald. There's a few more that didn't like Bush's obvious contempt for diplomacy but avoided value arguments against warmaking (thinking of Drum)...
Which is all to say, The Genuine Mister Smiff's quote smacks of Tom Friedman or Fred Hiatt talking to unidentified, average Americans who just happen to bolster Tom's or Fred's views of their political antagonists!
the use of anecdotes renders one's argument friedmanesque. the anecdotal examples of fantastically consequential peace bloggers kevin drum and digby are used to make this point.
I'm not an Obamaphile and I apparently helped trigger this message.
If we're going to argue seriously, and I have no intention of doing such a thing, it's sorta silly to think that everything has to perfectly balance. Supposing we could measure human happiness in utils, just sheer random walking ought to take us up and down the happiness scale somewhat, and as time passes a statistical ensemble of universes will widen on the happiness scale in both directions at a rate proportional to the sqrt root of time. So there's a 50/50 chance of at least the illusion of progress.
Donald Johnson
I'm not an Obamaphile and I apparently helped trigger this message.
One mark of Obama's successful branding as "Change" incarnate is the number of people critical of Obama who assume any invocation of the word "change" must be in praise of The One. The idea that there have been people working for real change long before Obama ever decided to run for President - before Obama was even born, even - well, that just doesn't compute.
It's funny, really, how they're helping to reinforce the notion that "Change=Obama" without even knowing it.
stubbornly resist examining the premise that indoor plumbing is progress.
I wonder if there isn't some segment of Black society in between unemployed-young-man-in-Anacostia and Condi Rice that you're missing.
There is. This segment of black society existed at the height of the civil rights movement, too. King himself was a part of it.
It doesn't make trading Jim Crow for the drug war and a token negro president any less of a wash.
It doesn't make trading Jim Crow for the drug war and a token negro president any less of a wash.
When was such a "trade" offered and accepted? It seems to me you're confusing correlation and causation. The civil rights movement coincided with the beginning of a long process of deindustrialization that had a bigger effect on the prospects of that young unemployed black man in Anacostia than anything that the civil rights movement accomplished.
And if there had never been a civil rights movement, would deindustrialization (or the drug war) not have happened? Of course they would have gone on just the same, with black people doubly (or triply) fucked.
So as long as we're discussing the meaninglessness of the civil rights movement, and how the ending of American apartheid is, like, all basically a wash, man, I'm wondering how many people in this thread are actually black.
Well I am, as far as you know. Does that help you feel ok with this discussion, honky?
" all basically a wash, man, I'm wondering how many people in this thread are actually black."
I'm morbidly curious about how this point will be answered. Extreme cynicism is all very well and in a blogosphere full of digbys it definitely has its place, but sometimes it can start looking more nasty than cool.
Donald Johnson
One mark of Obama's successful branding as "Change" incarnate is the number of people critical of Obama who assume any invocation of the word "change" must be in praise of The One.
Say what you will about the fucker, he sure knows his branding.
Were more killed per capita by Southern lynch mobs, or is that far outstripped by the endemic urban street violence that came with the prohibitory drug-war regime?
Time to admit that you and Mencius Moldbug are one and the same, and you had that parody in your back pocket the whole time. More seriously, according to Freakonomics there weren't that many lynchings over the history of Jim Crow, there were large amounts in some initial years to establish fear and then afterward it wasn't necessary because it was expected and the dominant power was unquestioned. The Inductivist has graphs here.
I think a better case for uplifting change not working out for black people is Zimbabwe, with some other African countries following behind. Those are part of the larger symptom of nationalist movements (which are really the only successful source of anti-imperialism) being shit. The U.S got off much luckier on that regard, but it's still highly questionable whether our war of independence was actually worth it.
I, too, demand that you validate my existance, IOZ! Or at least my parking!
Hope for small change!
"I think a better case for uplifting change not working out for black people is Zimbabwe, with some other African countries following behind"
-TGGP
You're the bullshitter's bullshitter. Keep up the good work my friend.
stubbornly resist examining the premise that indoor plumbing is progress
Skara Brae had indoor plumbing (in fact it still does), and it pre-dates the Great Pyramids. What was that you were saying about progress again?
The whole of Europe stubbornly resisted the premise that indoor plumbing was progress, but them Romans jus kep comin
The idea that there have been people working for real change long before Obama ever decided to run for President - before Obama was even born, even - well, that just doesn't compute.
Just to be clear, you're the guy who believes that more unions would be a positive change, right?
Just to be clear, you're the guy who believes that more unions would be a positive change, right?
Yep, that's me. Help me out. What's wrong with the quote you cited? I mean, you do understand I was describing a point of view that other people (not me) hold, right?
the indoor plumbing we enjoy today, we enjoy on the backs of exploited copper miners often working in unsafe conditions. the relatively new PEX piping (much easier to work with, and less problems with burst pipes due to freezing...(progress?!)) is made with hydrocarbons, and we all know what that entails...
no blood for piping!
It's hard out there for a pipe.
Hey IOZ, Why not try empiricism!? Inequality in self-reported happiness between blacks and whites has plummeted since the early seventies, almost entirely due to black gains. Progress! See Justin Wolfers' summary.
See what you can find out when you're are willing to actually ask black people how they feel?
Did that link not work? It's this:
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/happiness-inequality-2-differences-between-groups/
to people around my age, freakonomics and wikipedia are really all you need to establish the truth of absolutely any proposition.
Yes, I'm not sure how much the "happiness index" stands for empiricism. Aside from the fact that the graph there just shows a vast social movement toward an utterly ambivalent mean where blacks and whites share the same affectless ennui--woo!--there is the broader problem of social science opinion research: that poor urban and rural populations are undercaptured in the samples.
To be fair, though. From this data we can conclude that self-reported levels of happiness among mostly-employed blacks and whites with working land lines have converged over the past couple of decades.
Also, HA! anonymous at noon.
Re those ridiculous-looking squiggly graphs "measuring" "happiness" -- perhaps the really unhappy ones just bumped themselves off?
Yeah, yeah... I understand. It doesn't count as empiricism if it fucks up your backwards rant. Anyway, the average happiness level is in fact fairly high. What the graph shows is that it used to really suck to be a black American, and now the average black American is just about as happy as the average, pretty white happy American. Sure, happiness surveys are hardly decisive, but they're suggestive. What they suggest is that you're talking out of your ass.
Um.. that should say "pretty happy white American"
pretty?
The whole of Europe stubbornly resisted the premise that indoor plumbing was progress, but them Romans jus kep comin
OK, I know I should probably let it drop, but it's a hobby-horse of mine... The Romans did not invent indoor plumbing. Nor did they invent aqueducts, roads, trade, wine, the legal system, education, etc, etc, etc, Monty Python sketches to the contrary notwithstanding. (Indeed Terry Jones has since devoted much of his career to disabusing people of such notions.)
What the Romans actually brought to Europe pretty much boils down to: bureaucracy, taxation, collective punishment, mass slavery, a huge permanent military, and the widest disparity between rich and poor seen anywhere in the world until the 18th Century. Remind you of anybody?
i don't think happiness levels have much to do with points about the war on some drugs.
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