maybe some discussion of your opinion of popular music?Is FAIL fail yet? Because it seems to be that there's no other way to so concisely note the current state of popular music. It's thoroughly exhausted. The guitar gods now face their Götterdämmerung. The many bastard children of that brief, inglorious musical twink, electroclash, have devolved even further into twee hipster nonsense, a lot of twenty-year-olds ironically feigning sentimental attachment to a Casio-keyboard aesthetic that predated their own unfortunate late-eighties birth dates. At its worst hip-hop is the absolute worst, an unending skein of embarrassing materialism, put-a-ring-on-it female misogyny, and hollow, video-game violence with none of the Balzacian realness that animated violent rap in its past glory days, while underground hip-hop remains lyrically vital but was never musically interesting to begin with. I admit a soft spot for Wayne Coyne, because he is a sci-fi weirdo, and Stephen Merrit, because he's a fag. Otherwise, is there anything more embarrassing than a pack of liberal blogger types sharing microbrews and enthusing over The Decembrists, the single worst musical group in all history, the nadir of human aesthetic achievement, the final proof that human cognition as we know it, which originated song before speech, will end thusly, whistling grisly half-melodies as the ants inherit the earth?
-Schizo
On the other hand, guys like Rudresh Mahanthappa and Vijay Iyer are doing really interesting work bringing the rhythmic and tonal innovation of Indian music to jazz. You could hardly call it popular, though. It's no Jai Ho, ya know?
59 comments:
As a total hater from Pittsburgh, shouldn't you like Black Moth Super Rainbow?
Man, you are old.
Jazz has been thoroughly exhausted for about 40 years now.
That shit you embedded isn't innovative, it just lacks hipster appeal.
Jazz has been thoroughly exhausted for about 40 years now.I'd maybe give you 30, but the 70s were a fertile time for jazz. I know not eveyrone loves fusion, but guys like Pastorius and John McLaughlin got into some far-out shit.
The Decembrists' initial popularity has led to some pretty severe backlash. At this point, it's more "stereotypically hipster" to hate on them than enthuse over a microbrew. Not that the progbloggers are all that hip, but hey, your hatred could have less obvious target.
Go on, pick on M.I.A., who's managed to acquire both mainstream and indie cred without a severe backlash.
I've also noticed a trend on pop radio towards a saccharine pop-jazz-soft rock to counter the increasingly auto-tuned inanity of hip-hop. It could be worse, I suppose, but it's also a fun target.
IOZ-
Quit yer bitchin' and download my new record :)
With tunes like "Killer Drones" and "Organ Failure," how can you go wrong?
http://myfriendscallmenikkos.blogspot.com/2009/04/red-black-blue-new-music-from-nikkos.html
Jazz is not dead - artists like Bill Frisell, Peter Apfellbaum, Josh Roseman, Ingrid Jensen... the list goes on.
There is great indie music going on out there, once the labels finally die it will begin to emerge to the greater public. And there's always my band...
Hmm... that link didn't translate... my band.
What does this look like, Myspace?
But yes, I will lissin ti yinz bands n at.
Perhaps that could be a new target, a la several threads back? No, too easy...
Alright, I will give you the 70s. The "Bitches Brew gang", to be crude, did some pretty awesome shit. Unfortunatley the Musicians Institute was eventually born.
Wow, speaking of identity politics... I hadn't heard of Stephen Merritt, so a Google search turned this up. And it might be one of the first times I've read anything interesting on Slate!
Amen on your Decembrist's riff, though I think when blame is assessed years from now for this decade's pop, Arcade Fire and Death Cab for Cutie will be found ultimately responsible, with a lot of help from The Shins.
the decemberists have made a career out of being picked last for recess soccer, so that's worth something. six or seven pennies, at least.
still, magnetic fields aren't much better.
even more deserving of derision than MIA is peaches, for whom all criticism gets turned into "you're just upset she doesn't conform to heterosexist gender norms." no, i'm upset because i have ears and she's making them wish they were dead.
dhex - amen on peaches, fer rizzo.
nony @ 1:19 - that link rocks n rolls, and it also taught me that stephin merritt spells his first name like fagz.
Yeah, and since you just had even harsher words for hip-hop, what does that tell us about you, huh?!?!
S'funny -- I checked out Pandagon since it was mentioned in the thread below and saw that the old George Carlin bit from way back, which I thought was just a harmless and funny riff on sanitized language, is actually an argument that "borders on racism".
I guess I need to have my race-consciousness overhauled or something.
This post should simply be replaced by this link.
Really, it answers the question just as well.
Also, jazz fusion? Fer realz?
@BDR - really? You're blaming Death Cab and the Decembrists for the problems with...pop music? They're indie rockers who have achieved a tiny bit of mainstream success. Shouldn't blame be assigned to Jay-Z and Britney and Beyonce and Kanye and especially T-Pain...you know, the people who actually make pop music?
"Twink or twinkie is a gay slang term describing a young or young-looking gay man (usually in his late teens or early twenties) with a slender build, little or no body hair, and no facial hair," in case you skipped the hyperlink.
Seriously, why do gay men object when people accuse them of being pedophiles?
By the way, jazz is categorically awful in all forms. I mean, pick a tune, any tune.
late teens or early twenties = pedophile now,
erin4FocusontheFamily?
Besides...come on, now. You're a straight guy (I assume). You can admit that you and your buddies lust or have lust or at least have whistled after the teenage cheerleader types? I know my friends make those comments all the time, and I/we are in our forties.
It's ok to admit it. Or...for that matter...trophy wives. Not illegal, but certainly weird, right?
Couldn't you also opine that gay people wonder why heterosexuality leads to so much pedophilia.
Seriously, Erin, why do you knuckledragging conservatards have such difficulty with the concepts of "legal age" and "consent"?
Seriously Erin don't be daft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7oqXgzfCpw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hmVHhH96es&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXywhJpOKs&feature=related
I have a word for you, Erin: Daschund. Your spiritual leader and mentor loves his Daschund.
I dissent.
The Black Keys are amazing, and Gogol Bordello is just . . . an Event.
See some live Jazz. That's where it always was anyway. On your least favorite instrument only, you've got John Mclaughlin still cranking it, though he's a bit old and his stuff seems a bit creaky at times, and Al di Meola, who never had the soul, but is still a technical wizard, and when paired with other artists can be stunning. Charlie Hunter and John Scofield never quite reached the top, IMHO, but they still fucking rock.
In other Jazz, there's Medeski martin and Wood, who's not my favorite, but has a loyal following. And for fucks sake, see Brad Mehldau. Shit will blow your mind.
Ummm. OK, I was just asking a rhetorical question. I guess it's the hairless part that gives me the willies.
But on to my more important point which is that jazz sucks.
Since I also hang out at a pop-culture website with comments of people accusing each other of the ultimate indignity, being a "hipster douchebag," I feel able to compile a list of musicians who are "in." Most of listed here, such as The Decembrists and Peaches are as totally "out" now as they were "in" in 2003.
Therefore, to really stick it to the cool kids and their popular/critically acclaimed music, put the hurt on: the aforementioned M.I.A., TV on the Radio, Girl Talk, Tom Waits, Antony and the Johnsons, Neko Case, Justin Timberlake (to a point), and MGMT.
Girl Talk? Seriously? Night Ripper was pretty innovative (as far as mashups go), but Feed The Animals was really just a blatant appeal to nostalgia with weirdly out of place snippets of classic rock.
Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy it anyway, it just seems weird for something like that to be "in" right now.
I never understood the fascination with M.I.A. either. She's not bad, she's just... very unremarkable. I guess it's her politics.
I do have a soft spot for Antony, though, so don't go too hard on him.
I love the music I've been listening to lately. I wonder if other people like it too.
Nobody here would like the music I listen to, but that's ok.
(N/P: Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds: Henry's Dream...and early Emperor)
erin4furisthecriterion: doesn't she look cute in the skirt?
I will have a fistfight with anyone who speaks poorly of Tom Waits. In this, I am uncompromising. (I'm not sure how he figures into a conversation on popular music to begin with, though.)
Rowan - I'm friends with & have played with the drummer from TV on the Radio before. Great guy... very good musician too.
And Erin if you think jazz sux I really don't think you have any business commenting on music, ever. I can respect an opinion that jazz doesn't appeal to ones tastes [though I would seriously question that too]... Not only does jazz not suck, it is also the only original musical form America has ever offered to the world - so giving your flag-waving rah-rah personality, let me be the first to tell you that you're being unpatriotic.
I think Girl Talk's last album got a lot more recognition than his earlier stuff. I'd barely heard of him before 2007, and last year, my sister, a classical violist, is telling me about him. Plus it made several year end best-of lists.
At any rate, I didn't pick those artists cause I like or dislike them, just that their reputation seems to be almost all good right now. Someone attacking Neko Case is likely to trigger blind rage in me, but that's largely cause I've really never seen it. She's that well-loved.
rowan, not to turn the discussion too much to what's "in", but girl talk and mgmt are definitely not, at least among the self-styled avant garde. much too popular among the younger neon-wayfarers set.
mia is as well to some extent, but her mainstream popularity has been limited to paper planes, so i doubt she'll be dismissed at the same level, especially since she really is more musically interesting. perhaps more importantly, she's sri lankan, anti-establishment, and an easy example of "underground hip hop" to cite liking.
and justin timberlake is obviously out the window. people (or websites) say they like him to make themselves seem less pretentious, which of course makes them more pretentious.
I didn't want this to get too into the avant-garde. Just the bands that got on the "best-of" lists within the last couple of years from critics I respect, even if I may disagree with them.
Whereas most of the groups previously mentioned had been "best-of" types from 2003 or so, and have had the inevitable backlash against them. Maybe Girl Talk and MGMT have gone over the tipping point, but I haven't really seen it yet.
"I do have a soft spot for Antony, though, so don't go too hard on him."
he's an excellent performer.
back to being snarky:
girl talk = coldcut for tight pants
I thought that with your post titled "Camera Obscura" that maybe you were...well, a Camera Obscura fan.
Popular music? Who gives a fuck whether it's popular or not? I am not afraid to admit a fondness for the dorkiest '70s folk-rock (Steeleye Span, anyone?). Most of my music collection is on vinyl, and quite a bit of it is older than I am.
I also don't understand why anybody gives a fuck whether music is "new" or "old". That's just marketing bullshit. To me, "new" music is simply music that I haven't heard before.
There are only four categorisations which have any importance as far as music is concerned: good music, bad music, music which I like, and music which I don't like.
Dunc wins.
Well if there is no "new" than why has there been an avalanche of bad for much of the last decade.
+1 vinyl.
I'm in band that covers old Doors and AC/DC tunes, so what do I know.
Dunc, by "popular" I meant "music of the people", not "music that a lot of people like"... basically, rock music, but I didn't want to limit the discussion specifically to rock music. It's always annoyed me that there's not a separate word to contrast with "classical", but eh.
And discussion of random bands from the 70's is fine by me. I wouldn't consider anything since the 60's to be "old".
"Well if there is no "new" than why has there been an avalanche of bad for much of the last decade."
first of all, that needs a question mark; second of all, YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARTED, NEARLY EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU.
any discussions on what's "in" and what's "out" says much much more about the people having the conversation (i.e. what subculture they think is most relevant) than about the music their discussing. MGMT is "out" because of their popularity with the "younger neon-wayfarer set"; the decemberists are "in" because liberal bloggers like them (SERIOUSLY?!?!?!); you people go on like this, i'm comment #41.
what's important to understand is that we live in the IPOD age of popular music, an age in which there are no meaningful "pop charts", no "top 40" that's actually representative of aggregate taste. people listen to whatever stolen music they want to. keeping track of what's popular has become a fool's errand, and anyway the unifying force of radio has all but entirely disappeared.
further, there are six billion people on the planet, and a vast majority of the music that's written doesn't ever make it's way to your itunes. to say, as y'all do, "what i've heard in the last decade or two sucks," is a criticism of the state of A & R departments at indie labels, nothing more. you can have no context, no foundation from which to say popular music is "exhausted". you simply haven't heard enough of it, no matter how many bands you know.
brother frederick (above) bemoans "an avalanche of bad for much of the last decade." i say: stop reading that one "indie" website that's been wrong about good music for well over a decade now, and start actually seeking out the avant-garde, if that's what you want. sub-pop is a subsidiary of warner music, for christ's sake: of course their bands suck!
and erin, it is perhaps the ultimate sign of musical ignorance to say, as you said of jazz, "i mean, pick a tune, any tune." this brands you as an idiot, not to be taken seriously when it comes to music. i mean, if you can listen to jazz and not hear tunes, you're just a fucking moron. you probably find thelonious monk too out there and tuneless, yeah? well, listen to ornette coleman, bitch.
Dear Old People,
Please stop talking about music made after 1985. Yer makin yerselfs look bad.
Thanks,
A Dude.
I was 13 in 1985, so that makes me unqualified to talk about the music from the last 25 years, somehow?
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pitchfork_gives_music_6_8
And, ps, as easy as it is to snipe at erin4iRock about not liking jazz--of apparently any kind at all, including old ragtime, old broadway like Gershwin standards, Bossa Nova & Salsa, big band & swing, the thirteen kinds of bebop ranging from Bird to Trane to Monk to Miles, and any of the postbop fusionish experimentation that shows musicianship among real musicians is a restless beast--and that erin thinks its erotically inadmissible to dig on hairless bodies--it nonetheless remains supremely worth it and entertaining taboot. Not only are you wrong about politics, erin, you're also wrong about everything else, assuming its fair to use music and sex to metonymize everything else, which I think it is. Enjoy your Weezer erin. Perhaps you've earned it.
Very nice g-nome. As the sister of someone who (I recently learned) was molested when he was a young, hairless boy, and having heard about the pain and confusion and fear that caused him to suffer, and the course of destructive events that initiated in his life, I think I have reason to denounce anything that smacks of pedophilia from gay or straight men. So suck it.
And yes, all jazz is unlistenable-to.
For fuck's SAKE, Erin. Once again, as long as the objects of desire in question are eighteen or older, you really have absolutely no basis for sticking your judgmental nose into things. Gay guys can have all the young, hairless sex they want, and it does not relate to your brother's molestation at all. Preferring your partners to look cherubic and feel silky smooth does not imply that they also want to fuck a six year-old. You did claim to be a lawyer, right?
My first girlfriend in high school was molested by her dad from about age 4-14, and he was a libertarian, therefore Ron Paul should be castrated. How 'bout that logic?
I think I have reason to denounce anything that smacks of pedophilia from gay or straight men.I find it hilarious that a woman, of all things, believes that a man's being attracted to hairless bodies "smacks" of pedophilia.
I guess you don't shave your legs, then, eh sweetheart?
"first of all, that needs a question mark"
No it doesn't. Think about it.
brother frederick (above) bemoans "an avalanche of bad for much of the last decade." i say: stop reading that one "indie" website that's been wrong about good music for well over a decade now, and start actually seeking out the avant-garde, if that's what you want. sub-pop is a subsidiary of warner music, for christ's sake: of course their bands suck!Do I know you? Is this Mr. Fundamental pulling my dick anonymously? In my opinion the two worst decades for music in the last 50 years have been the current one and the 80s. It's my opinion and I didn't find it in a magazine...I'm a musician. To each his own. Calm down.
Fred - there's some good in the '80's, a lot of it actually. It was the start of the indie movement for one - DC hardcore scene that spun out to the SF hardcore scene, and then an explosion. Sonic Youth's first album was in 1981 - and they did all of their best work in the '80's. Then you had Minor Threat, breading Fugazi and Ian MacKaye's Dischord records, Bad Brains, Minutemen, Dead Kennedy's, X. On the British side of things, you had the whole 4ad scene that came out of Joy Division and the Buzzcocks. And to be honest, brit pop in the early '80's was pretty fucking good, despite being the precursor to the shitty pop of the '90's and beyond.
You also had REM & U2 - which though extremely annoying as the '80's went on, did make fantastic albums in their early years - completely changing the mold - and REM is also very responsible for the 'indie revolution' of the '90's like it or not.
Then among major artists? Shit 3 of the best albums ever were recorded by King Crimson in 1981-1983. Peter Gabriel 3 was released in 1980, and the not as good, but still kick ass Security was release in 1983. Pink Floyd's 'The Final Cut' was release in 1982 and was far superior to The Wall. And shit Prince... I mean really. If Hendrix had lived, he would have morphed into Prince. Not to mention people like Laurie Anderson, Elvis Costello, The Police, The Clash, Talking Heads...
Good lord! How can you say that the '80's were a low point in music!
I mean, I think Casio quality synthesizers and Quincy Brown ruined R&B in the '80's. I think that trend got picked up by the labels and it destroyed pop music in general for the 20 years after. I think hair metal bands destroyed hard rock and while that was briefly thwarted in the early '90's the trend continues. But there was a fuckload of good music in the '80's, just like there is a fuckload of good music now.
Just go out, find and listen... and help out the artists.
Oh - and Fred... I'm a musician too.
There's so much music this decade, and so much of it is retro-minded, that I can't imagine anyone actually finding less this decade to like than another one at random. It may take slightly deeper digging than listening to the radio, but I mean, it's on the fucking internet. It's pretty damn easy to do a if-you-like-Neil-Young-try-Iron-and-Wine or Bruce Springsteen/Gaslight Anthem or classic Motown/Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings. And that's not even getting into music which isn't as deliberately retro-minded. You know, new-sounding shit that's good.
If my arm were twisted, I'd probably pick this decade's music over any other. There's more numbers and more variety.
I just like music - it doesn't matter the decade.
True story... When I was studying jazz in college, my teacher gave me some album I've never been able to track down that involved Bill and two horn players doing the Cole Porter songbook. He just said when he gave it to me - you want to learn how to comp on the guitar, learn this album. Granted he also had me transcribing Wes Montgomery solos and Bird, and well, everything.
All I'm trying to say, is there is so much music everywhere in every decade that it is insane to fight about it. Pop music sucked in the 1930's - like it did in the 1870's, like it did in the 1650's. What moves music forward is the stuff that sometimes is on the margins and sometimes in the prime time. Can anyone deny that people like Radiohead have given something important to the history of music. Can anyone deny that Nick Drake has... I mean the heroin addict folk player that killed himself before his 3rd album was released. He was a failure, in every way, except that he made beautiful music that influenced every songwriter for 30 years after his death.
For me, the question is, what is important for music. What makes it new, or conglomerates other forms into something never heard before. A good lyric? A crazy chord progression? A transposition of something past into a new idiom? An Athenic birth of something new?
It's all of the above. Which is why I'm a musician - why I live my life to create some, none, or all of the above.
Fuck what is popular.
"No it doesn't. Think about it."
pretty sure it does.
"In my opinion the two worst decades for music in the last 50 years have been the current one and the 80s."
hey, look! i get to quote my first comment: "a vast majority of the music that's written doesn't ever make its way to your itunes. to say, as y'all do, 'what i've heard in the last decade or two sucks,' is a criticism of the state of A & R departments at indie labels, nothing more."
it's dumb shit critic-speak to talk about this or that decade being "good for music" and "bad for music". the scope of musical innovation is far broader than your capacity to take it in.
Ha, what a bunch of fags. And Erin.
Pink Floyd's 'The Final Cut' was release in 1982 and was far superior to The Wall.Pull the other one!
Sort of like Will & Grace but not
dense.
(Something I wrote re. the awful Decemberists, provoked some years back by seeing pictures on their web site showing them pretending to be some kind of Civil War-era marching band. It's not all that, but I think the hate comes through, a little.)
"(The caption to this photo on The Decemberists’ website reads: “The regiment finds needed respite from their dogged march.” Christ. One thing is for certain; if the Decemberists were transported back to the 1860s, all contending parties - Northerners, Southerners, plantation owners, jayhawkers, bushwackers, abolitionists, John Brown, the slaves and even the French armies in Mexico - would have settled all their differences and united to concentrate on stopping that infernal racket. “A house united against Colin Meloy’s singing can never fall” - A. Lincoln.)"
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