IOZ Interviews: Malcolm Gladwell

Today I am thrilled to be joined by America's most important thinker, Malcolm Gladwell, who writes for The New Yorker and will soon publish his fourth book, Hey!. Today, Gladwell talks to us about his new book, elections in Afghanistan, Health Care, and state of the American economy.

IOZ: Mr. Gladwell, thank you for joining us.

MG: Thank you.

IOZ: Malcolm, what is your new book about?

MG: Well, IOZ, it's about how when you call across a room, street, or open outdoor area to someone who hasn't previously noticed you, they will hear you and become aware of your presence. This is really a remarkable phenomenon, but much of the newest research has yet to be written about for a general audience. I got the idea one day when I was in Manhattan. I was on Bleeker, and suddenly someone called, "Hey!" Before that, I hadn't known he was there. Afterward, I did. So I started to ask myself, what goes on in that moment. What is the real story there? In a broader sense, it is a book about what it means to be human.

IOZ: Heady stuff, no doubt. But Malcolm, won't some people say, oh, that is just glib repackaging of a totally banal and widely appreciated fundamental of everyday, lived experience?

MG: They might, but they would be misunderstanding the central idea of the book. You see, this isn't a story that's been told before. It isn't about hearing, or voice recognition, or the habits of human public interaction. Those stories have been told before. This is really a story about an idea.

IOZ: Do stories and ideas mix, Malcolm?

MG: Not usually, IOZ. They are like oil and vinegar. So I try to think of my writing like the mustard that emulsifies the oil and vinegar into a salad dressing.

IOZ: I think I understand. So would you say that the story is the oil and the idea the vinegar, or vice versa?

MG: You may be taking the metaphor too literally. Instead of thinking about oil and vinegar, think about chocolate and peanut butter.

IOZ: Which . . . go together!

MG: Exactly.

IOZ: You certainly think outside the tipping point, Malcolm. How does your concept affect the Health Care debate in America.

MG: I thought a lot about Health Care while writing this book. The argument seemed to me to center on a few fixed ideas, such as whether or not health care is a commodity or a basic right, or who ultimately bears the responsibility for paying for care, or if the goal should be the best care regardless of cost or a fuller balancing of the necessity of treatment against the expense of providing it. Somehow, it struck me as very limited. And so I began to think about Health Care not as the treatment of sick people or the maintenance of minimum standards of public wellness, but instead as an idea that ultimately speaks to who we are as a species.

IOZ: Who are we as a species, Malcolm Gladwell?

MG: Actually, IOZ, that will be my next, next book.

IOZ: In the works?

MG: In the works.

IOZ: What can you tell us about it?

MG: Not much yet. The working title is: Humanity: the Human Species.

IOZ: Intriguing. How would you rate President Obama's handling of the economy?

MG: I am less interested in the way the President has handled the economy than I am in what the President's handling of the economy says about the human mind within the context of the President's handling of the economy. It is a story about how the decisions we make affect the decisions he makes regarding the decisions we make, and that is ultimately a story about what it means to be human.

IOZ: What does it mean to be human, Malcolm Gladwell?

MG: Being human is unquestionably a state of being, IOZ. What is a state of being? It is a story, which has a beginning, a middle, and an end. What are beginnings, middles, and ends? They're locations. And what is a location? It is a place.

IOZ: That is exactly the sort of counterintuitive thinking that has made you such a provocative thinker and author. Final question: what should we think about the elections in Afghanistan?

MG: We should definitely think about them, IOZ. That is not the position we naturally arrive at, but when we go beyond the conventional wisdom and "common sense," it is the only conclusion.

IOZ: Thank you, Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell's new book is Hey!: You Over There, and Where It Comes From.