Who Is IOZ?: 120 Blog Posts of Sodom

Tuesday, October 06, 2009

120 Blog Posts of Sodom

On Polanski, I commend to you Father Smiff, that ratiocinating reverend.

I don't have much to add to the matter except to say that those who claim that great art does not redeem cruel, evil, perverse, and otherwise undeniable men of their more heinous acts may comfort themselves which such bosh and piffle, as The Mencken might term it, here in the lonely present, but they have not paid attention to their history.

102 comments:

BDR said...: Father Smiff is smart, though he missed a great chance to allude to Mission of Burma.; 3:25 PM
Christopher M. said...: Um, what the fuck does the "children" tag have to with it? Polanski stuck his penis in someone who was asking him to stop. This isn't a "what about the children" situation. It's rape.

And dude - you're going to really pull out the "great art absolves criminal behavior" card on Roman fucking Polanski? I like Chinatown, really, but what else, precisely, has the man produced of any worth? Rosemary's Baby? When was the last time you actually watched Rosemary's Baby? When was the last time anybody watched Rosemary's Baby? What else has he got there - The Pianist? Dance of the Vampires? The Ninth Gate? If you're going to start handing out licenses to rape, you could at least try to not be so fucking sloppy about it.; 4:03 PM
NSFW said...: Speaking of buttfuckers, what is it about gay guys speaking French while bragging about their sex lives?; 4:25 PM
Mr.Fundamental said...: please don't make me have an opinion on this. please oh please oh please oh please.; 4:28 PM
Christopher M. said...: Sullivan is your Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come, IOZ.; 4:43 PM
Anonymous said...: here in the great state of VA, a prominent ad by one of the wingnuts running for gubernator or something says, "protecting our children for over 40 years."

his campaign ph# is 703-522-1817.

Christopher M., he's waiting for your call.; 4:50 PM
IOZ said...: What is it about gay guys who don't know the proper genders of French nouns speaking French while bragging about their sex lives.; 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: That piece was an indecipherable and idiotic mess.

Polanski is an admitted child rapist [i.e. total scum] and was screwed over by a publicity seeking judge.

Chinatown was great. Knife in the Water was pretty damn good. The rest is mediocre to bad.; 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: When in doubt, turn to Chris Rock for the answer:

http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/10/count_on_chris_rock.php; 5:12 PM
Brian M said...: I love SMBIVA. This piece was a major failure, though.

I'm with Stras and Alan Smithee.

While I lack faith in "the system" and "the cops" as perfect moral authorities, I read Mr. Smith's and OP's vaguely defined lefty libertarianism as basically and ultimately meaning "justice" can only come via personal vendettas...or perhaps The Union will enforce justice in the perfect, non-cop world. Or the Workforce Organizing Committee? Or, the tribal elders? Or maybe we can devolve into a world of clan warfare...heaven forbid the police be brought in, let's just have the girl's father and brothers slaughter the whole offending Polanski family???

I mean, come on, it's not pecksniffian to find drugging and raping a 13 year old a little bit reprehensible, borgeoise sensitivities and all?; 5:35 PM
Josh K-sky said...: I feel like I can endorse the twin prospects of Polanski serving jail time and history remembering Chinatown as a great movie without too much head-asploding.

L.A. Confidential was even better, though.; 6:07 PM
IOZ said...: Mr. S. can defend himself, but as for me, some of you seem to be reading observation as apologia, and in any case validating my point. I suggest you peruse the annals of artistic history. You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal.; 6:45 PM
Jenny said...: I'm with Chris M here, this is a fucking stupid argument.; 7:00 PM
Inspector Lee said...: He's the original 5 foot pole you wouldn't want to be touched with.; 7:38 PM
Justin said...: "You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal."

Did we already have this discussion when MJ died?; 7:59 PM
Montag said...: the real question here is whether Top Gun and Days of Thunder redeem Tom Cruise's Scientologism?; 8:06 PM
NutellaonToast said...: "I suggest you peruse the annals of artistic history. You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal."

IOZ, since your argument seems to only be that great artist have been given leniency in the past, I agree! I'm a bit confused as to your point though, as the only rectification I can see is either to continue to do this or go back in time and fix history.

Also, too, I'm a little disappointed that no one has brought up the eight-year-olds, yet.; 8:29 PM
SteveB said...: the Pecksniffery of self-appointed advocates for supposedly innocent children...

I hate him for that "supposedly."; 10:26 PM
Saurs said...: Does "great art" include Repulsion, the one in which being afraid of rape and sexual harassment = inevitable murderous cock-deprived harpy rage?; 12:15 AM
Enron said...: Montag +1

I am less interested in a sexual crime committed thirty years ago in the wake of the man's wife's horrible murder by Chuckie Manson, settled in a civil suit, than the circumstances in which a man was extradited using whatever version of America's international reach to uphold the wishes of some publicity-seeking judge.; 1:54 AM
Enron said...: Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373m99A_oP0; 1:59 AM
Anonymous said...: you and woody allen, enron.; 4:10 AM
Anonymous said...: why is the (then) 13 yr old victim not wallowing in all the revenge fantasies of so many americans? look at all the fun she's missing out on!; 8:42 AM
Christopher M. said...: the man's wife's horrible murder by Chuckie Manson

Personally, I believe we should excuse Charles Manson's handful of murders, given the wonderful songs he previously produced, and of course the sad life Mr. Manson endured throughout his childhood.; 8:56 AM
Christopher M. said...: some of you seem to be reading observation as apologia, and in any case validating my point

"My point wasn't the point you thought it was! And I'm not going to try to clarify what my real point was! But believe you me, you folks are proving it, yessir!"; 9:02 AM
Michael L said...: IOZ,
"I suggest you peruse the annals of artistic history. You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal."

Which is not to say that they couldn't have been punished in their own time and still have their art live on. Great art not only survives its creator, it has an existence independent of its creator.; 9:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Enron: The civil suit (settled out of court when Polanki paid the woman half a million dollars - funny how money can buy one's way out of just about anything)settled absolutely nothing with regards to the People v. Polanski. If you wanna argue the law a base level knowledge of the law might come in handy.; 10:26 AM
LP Steve said...: "I suggest you peruse the annals of artistic history. You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal."

Well, okay, but your point was not clear. People watching Chinatown 50 years from now will have only a vague notion of Polanski the person (though there are counterexamples, e.g., Roscoe Arbuckle). But that doesn't equal a get out of jail free card in the here and now.; 11:01 AM
Justin said...: "You will find many of the much-beloved and -admired to be monsters at least of Mr. Polanski's equal."

The examples I can think of and speaking only for myself - it isn't the artist that I love and admire, it is their work. Something that I evaluate as independently as possible from the artist.

P.S. If there were ever a thread more ripe for Godwin's law than chatter about monstrous artists, I have yet to see it.; 11:20 AM
IOZ said...: There's certainly no lack of moral posturing in this thread. I hope you all show up in the next post on Iran to remind us that Hitler was bad and the Holocaust really happened.; 11:24 AM
Mr.Fundamental said...: People watching Chinatown 50 years from now will have only a vague notion of Polanski the person (though there are counterexamples, e.g., Roscoe Arbuckle). But that doesn't equal a get out of jail free card in the here and now.

what I had. what I had. what I had.

I had a fucking vague notion of Polanski the person, and it was usually in a passing joke I never quite got. so. thanks. yea, just thanks. you fucking cunts. who the fuck cares about Roman Polanski? why the fuck are we talking about this?

people complain about the media and then sink their teeth into this big pile of steamy news. get bent.; 11:32 AM
Montag said...: i still think Appetite for Destruction has merit, even though Axl Rose is a racist douche bag.

also: @Justin:

they were Nazis, Dude?; 11:32 AM
Mr.Fundamental said...: here people, have fun!; 11:41 AM
Anonymous said...: It's the McVeigh thread all over again.; 11:47 AM
Anonymous said...: 1) That little strumpet drugged and raped herself.

2) Even if he DID do it, and he DIDN'T, it's allll water under the bridge.

3) Who benefits?; 11:57 AM
SteveB said...: why the fuck are we talking about this?

I think this guy has something to do with it.; 11:57 AM
Anonymous said...: You just look for the person who will benefit, and uh... you know what I'm trying to say here, uh...; 11:58 AM
Mr.Fundamental said...: the royal we, the editorial. you know, I. . .uh. . .look man, new shit has come to light.; 12:02 PM
Anonymous said...: did polanski ever go door to door in chino & identify himself as a pederast?

then i say we get that fucker...and then iran.; 12:08 PM
Inspector Lee said...: Never mind some Polish hack film director (Hollywood people). Mr Gore Vidal gets to the heart of the matter:

Strangely, though, Vidal has always resisted the idea that he is a "gay" champion. "I never said I was gay, because I don't think anyone is." He says he finds "these restrictions tiresome. In the centuries of Rome's great military and political success, there was no differentiation between same-sexers and other-sexers; there was also a lot of crossing back and forth. Of the first 12 Roman emperors, only one was exclusively heterosexual." The US today is, for all the fussing, full of sodomy, he says. "Did you see [Colonel] Gaddafi [at the UN] complaining that American soldiers have been sodomising Arab boys? I thought, well that's been the case since the very beginning of the republic. They blamed the sodomy on those great forests out there which they said made them horny. There was nothing else to do but bugger boys, they said."

So the treaty with the Barbary Pirates involved shipments of young boys to America? Who knew?

And of course, more inside skinny on the sexual tastes of Jack Kennedy:

Jackie was really secretly in love with Bobby, he says. He used to call Jack the President-erect. Jack once had sex with an actress friend of his in a bath, and suddenly rammed her head underwater, so she would have a vaginal spasm, and he would have an orgasm. "She hates him still," he says.

-- Vidal, in his dotage, rails against the dying of the light; 12:17 PM
Christopher M. said...: I hope you all show up in the next post on Iran to remind us that Hitler was bad and the Holocaust really happened.

I hope you show up in the next thread to whine about how we keep talking about the things you've posted about, and about how we don't, like, understand you, man.; 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Christopher M, ShitonToast and SteveB prove once again what busybody douches they are. Seriously, get the fuck out there and touch...uh, "protect" some kids, since you seem to want it so bad. CM, especially, has reached the point where he needs to get the fuck over himself or jump in front of something heavy that is also moving fast.

Maybe there is an endangered species out there you could be saving, if there are no kids to defend? A third world nation? Something you could be doing that would make you out to be the heroes in your own pathetic imaginations without bothering me while I'm reading blogs at work?; 12:41 PM
Christopher M. said...: It's bad form to post as Anonymous on your own blog, IOZ.; 12:55 PM
Christopher M. said...: Incidentally, I find it hilarious for IOZ to be accusing anyone of "moral posturing." Izzy, have you ever read your own blog?; 12:58 PM
Anonymous said...: I am enjoying Chris M's outrage enormously. Certainly, Polanski's repuatation for all history has taken a blow that pushes him far away from great artists of the past, like Gaugain for instance. Truly, we will NEVAR 4GET.; 1:13 PM
Inkberrow said...: Is utilitarian contextualizing itself a particular normative moral stance? A post hoc rationalization therefor?

All I know is that if you want to enjoy tasty Art Omelettes on a regular basis, you've got to be willing to break a few (fertilized?) eggs.; 1:14 PM
jethrosexual said...: those who claim that great art does not redeem cruel, evil, perverse, and otherwise undeniable men of their more heinous acts

Hey, when the fuck did Freddy Nietzsche start blogging?

Seriously, dude, okay, fine, IOZ gotta do what he do, and that's shock him some boorzhwazee, sun is bright, water is wet. But seriously, what the fuck is with that "redeem"? Unless you're going to lower yourself to condescendingly explain how the word doesn't mean what it means to every other English-speaker when you use it, you're going to have to admit that it's totally senseless to even bring it up.

Other than Polanski's clueless tone-deaf apologists on one side and the Big Hollywood culture warrior-types on the other, no one has a problem with the concept that he can be a talented director and a disgusting child rapist...at the same time! Claiming that his work needs to be redeemed is a product of the mindset that says he can only be one or the other. There is no "redemption" or "damnation". Totally idiotic concepts. Intelligent people have no business using them.

Plus, there are also people who manage to be great artists without having to be amoral monsters too! It's true! You can look it up! No need for all this romanticist horseshit!; 1:22 PM
Christopher M. said...: I am enjoying Chris M's outrage enormously

Calmer'n you are.; 1:22 PM
IOZ said...: ChristoM, Pittsburgh was calmer than you on Superbowl eve.; 1:41 PM
Inspector Lee said...: Juvenile sodomy is the American Way. That stunted French-Polish degenerate just wanted to fit in, to be on the team, one of the gang.

He never understood Americans.; 2:06 PM
Christopher M. said...: Izzy, you should probably stick to sockpuppets and movie quotes in threads like these.; 2:21 PM
Jane said...: Speaking of "complicity with the enforcement state" (as Mr. Smiff sez), it was Polanski who insisted on being exonerated by the same philistines he flipped the bird to thirty years ago. If he'd kept his big yap shut they never would have gone after him. If he hadn't had his idiot lawyers make that snotty remark in the Motion to Dismiss he'd be free to carry on his lighthearted roue ways today. Hoist with his own petard? Le ha ha ha. The police are not your friends? Indeed.

If Polanski were a pothead anarchist like you, IOZ, he'd be a free man today.; 2:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Big Jewish Hollywood Star, left-coast liberal, child rape (w/sodomy!), drugs, judicial/prosecutorial misconduct, flights from the law, payoffs, photography, Jack Nicholson, etc., etc....if you can't get OUTRAGED at Polanski, do you get outraged about anything?

oh, i forgot. Polanski's an immigrant. he's also why we ain't got no goddam jobs.; 2:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Jane,

No, the cops are not your friends, and are no less likely to keep your sacred cunts holy and inviolate than Hollywood directors. But look how outraged you are! Good for you.

Sincerely,etc.; 2:30 PM
Anonymous said...: This is an epic thing. I wish IOZ would rename the post "License to Rape" in deference to the great Christopher M. kookout.; 2:46 PM
stras said...: I think most of us can handle both the concept that Chinatown is a great film and the notion that its director is a child rapist who deserves to go to prison.

Incidentally, the police may Not Be My Friend, but they are generally Not My Friend because they typically defer to the interests of the wealthy, white, ruling elite - a class to which Roman Polanski certainly belongs, and a class that's been happy to protect him in comfort for the past thirty years. Through a fluke, a rich white dude might actually have to get some jail time, and I'm suddenly supposed to clutch my pearls over the Big Bad State? Pull the other one.; 2:46 PM
Jane said...: Anon,

I find your outrage at the fact that I might want to keep my cunt inviolate both instructive and hilarious.

When I hear the word "sensitivity"....... I go for my revolver, or would if I had one.

For people who object to "staged outrage" there is some significant violent posturing here. You hurling the c-bomb. Big man! MJS daydreaming about taking up arms people who dare suggest "sensitivity". Quelle horreur!

We could play armchair Freud with this shit all day.; 2:54 PM
lungfish said...: More than anything, this post is just badly written. "The Mencken" - and really, "the" Mencken? Is that definite article supposed to be cute or clever here? - would've been a bit more cogent, and would've hopefully arrived at something a bit more interesting than "Gauguin was an asshole, too."; 2:58 PM
IOZ said...: Jane - your point about Polanski's big mouth is both true and hilarious, but you might want to dial down your exception to MJS' winking paraphrase of the famously misquoted and misattributed Johst line. It's, you know, a stock cliché.; 2:59 PM
Montag said...: HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY? AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO GIVES A SHIT
ABOUT THE RULES? MARK IT ZERO!; 2:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Jane's objection to this anon's use of a particular word (did you think I was slipping it in to insult you? Hmm, maybe; you sure are an annoying little git) says all that needs saying about the censoriousness of the competitive outrage crowd here. There is no "violent posturing" in the use of words or in the use (as Monsieur points out) of stock phrases. While you are on the lookout for things to find ironic and hilarious in that hipster-ish sort of way, you might wonder why people who are cheering on the use of state power against a celebrity for what can only be headline-grabbing purposes would wish to accuse those who find their arguments stupid and childish of "violent posturing".

Here's a hint, honey. I ain't on the side of the lynch mob.

PS-to preempt your further outrage, the "honey" is there just to bait you, as in the previous use of the "c-bomb" (LOL). When I have to explain this to you, you have passed beyond fish in barrel stage. If you wish to make an otherwise humdrum day brighter for me, though, you have my permission to start screaming about my lack of feminine perspective.; 3:09 PM
stras said...: It's, you know, a stock cliché

Since when have you ever taken objection to stock clichés?; 3:20 PM
Jane said...: Oh, pound sand, Anon. You walked right into it. Thanks for the cruel, hearty, ironic laugh.

Okay, IOZ. Sometimes a revolver is just a revolver. I keed! I keed!; 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: I ain't on the side of the lynch mob.

Last I heard, the term "lynch mob" did not refer to those who wanted due process for someone who fled the country after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a thirteen year old.; 3:27 PM
IOZ said...: "Due process." Lawl. Good god, can we not anathematize the perverts of our times without genuflecting to the hoary pretentions of our so-called justice system. Book 'em, Dano.; 3:55 PM
Anonymous said...: This thread resembles a discussion of the WNBA playoffs in that I cannot for the life of me understand why y'all give a shit! Walter, sure, but the rest of you?; 3:58 PM
anon said...: ioz, you lose your shit over the weirdest fucking shit. he's just an old perv, get over it, you don't have to start on some "first they came for the pedophiles" shit.; 4:04 PM
IOZ said...: Haha. Um, can you show me the part where I lose my shit?

Technically Polanski is an ephebophile with a hebephiliac tendency, btw. Technically.; 4:07 PM
Rowan said...: I must protest at the Lebowski references. This thread is less a shaggy-dog tale than a tragic farce, along the lines of Burn After Reading or Fargo.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to grab my wedge and storm off in a huff.; 4:13 PM
Rowan said...: I tried to quit you, but IOZ's last comment sucked me back in....

What are you, a fucking park ranger now?; 4:15 PM
Mr.Fundamental said...: you mean, beyond pacifism?; 4:22 PM
Anonymous said...: anon 3:27, r.p. fled b/c due process had been circumvented.

"you are not dealing w/morons here."

"were you listening to the dude's story?" etc., etc.

god, what a bunch of dumbasses on this thread.; 4:24 PM
Anonymous said...: “Good god, can we not anathematize the perverts of our times without genuflecting to the hoary pretentions of our so-called justice system.”
So true. Let’s cast aspersions at rapists and leave the “so-called justice system” out of it.
That’ll teach em a lesson all right.; 4:25 PM
anon said...: Um, can you show me the part where I lose my shit?

this entire thread, genius. this whole things been one of your classic 'shit i fucked up, but i cant admit it or i'll look dumb, so i'll be cryptic for a while, then freak out, then accuse everyone else of freaking out, then drop a couple lebowski quotes' moments.

don't pout though, honey, we still love you.; 4:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Once upon a time, in the good 'ol days before the computers and the new fangled internet, these sorts of discussions were had in private and forgotten in a period of 2,3, much less 20 years. Luckily, we may live in a time where threads like this will last forever, ensuring that somewhere on the 645th page of Bingle links, the fury will be stored. History is written, friends!; 4:43 PM
Montag said...: of for fuck's sake. the justice system will do what it does regardless of what yinz (usage?) BLARG here in this comments thread. it's like the Smith fellow said in his first follow-up post at the other place:

It's as though they felt they had to take sides: Child molesters versus storm troopers. As if it would matter which side they took.

This is one of the luxuries of being utterly powerless: you have no responsibilities. Comrades, we don't have to answer questions of the form, "If you have no X, how do you do Y?" -- where X might be, for example, cops, and Y might be, "prevent child molestation."

i hate you all. fuck off.; 4:46 PM
Justin said...: I still don't understand the original post. I think IOZ means to say that some long dead artists are/were monstrous according to the parlance of our times, which doesn't seem to have detracted much from humanity's appreciation for their legacies. Fair enough except when it isn't true.

I don't really see how you can argue with that, except the way IOZ put it, the love and admiration is put upon the artists themselves rather than their works, which I don't really follow.

To move on, I still have no idea what fuck all this has to do with Polanski's extradition.

I'd like to go on to say I could give a shit about the whole thing, but then why am I typing my 3rd comment in this God forsaken thread and have to rhetorically ask myself, "Now who is the asshole?"; 4:47 PM
la Rana said...: In your rush to save the children, all you fucks in the league office are happily ignoring that the justice you seek has no definition, the punishment you demand has no justification, the vengeance you lust has been abandoned.

A show of hands for many of you think humanitarian intervention is a good idea?

(justin - I don't think the artist and the art are that easily distinguishable. Admiration rubs from one to the other.); 5:09 PM
IOZ said...: And la_rana for the win.; 6:00 PM
Anonymous said...: thanks for spawning this terrible thread ioz here let me make it a little bit worse. great.; 6:27 PM
rowan said...: hey guys, remember when IOZ confused Naomi Klein with Naomi Wolf?

That was way more fun.; 6:33 PM
IOZ said...: You've so got it backwards, rowan.; 6:41 PM
Charles F. Oxtrot said...: I kinda liked the anon @ 3:09 entry. my supra-orbital torus is prominent, as is my prognathism. maybe that explains why I don't feel queasy using the word "cunt" and I also note the way in England it's such a broadly used word that it's really lost most of its origination in the nether regions of XX chromosomed humans.

interestingly someone suggested Polanski gave up his civil rights as soon as he copped to the offense and went into hiding. um, so that means we could just kill him now, then? or maybe torture him in some method that was in Vincent d'Onofrio's dreams in The Cell?

gotcha. that's so righteously proper and all -- not to mention, the very pinnacle of cool... as in "what the cool kids are doing."; 8:24 PM
Charles F. Oxtrot said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8:24 PM
Mr.Fundamental said...: I was close!; 8:45 PM
Inkberrow said...: IOZ---

La Rana's vaunted "win" occurred in the wrong box. Anon way back at (the first?) 10:26 noted whyso, accurately. La Rana's "justice" and "punishment" are indeed moot, where the case of Victim vs. Polanski is concerned. People vs. Polanski remains pending, which incidentally is why we're all talking about the superannuated reprobate in the first place. To be fair, I guess I must admit I've read nothing about Polanski being asked to sign off on the Manson prosecutions.....; 8:45 PM
Rowan said...: Nah. It was way better. Though I'll grant that in the author's subjective perspective, it may not have appeared as such.; 1:52 AM
IOZ said...: That's not what I meant, rowan. I mean, you reversed the order of the confusion.; 7:38 AM
Agi said...: Naomi Watts?; 8:54 AM
Anonymous said...: I once confused Klaus Barbie with Klaus Nomi.; 11:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Klaus Nomi ftw.

Seriously though, are we still talking about this? I don't know Polanski and don't see how his legal situation has any global significance.

And unless you've risen to the level of GG Allen, I don't see how your criminality has any bearing on your art. Rosemary's Baby was a great film. Frantic sucked balls. Roman Polanski is a convicted child-rapist. The earth continues to spin on its axis. But speaking of Klaus Nomi: http://zabakdaz.com/; 12:45 PM
Rowan said...: I figured using "with" didn't have an order of confusion - there were two Naomis, and the names got mixed up. "For" implies which was confused for which.

Now I'm a fucking park ranger.; 1:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Being remembered as a great artist doesn't count as "redemption" in the moral sense, so...yeah, they have paid attention to their history. You haven't paid attention to yours. Beethoven was a great musician, and we value his music today, but nobody praises him as a great or even good person.; 8:52 PM
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Tuesday, October 06, 2009

120 Blog Posts of Sodom

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