Thursday, November 19, 2009

The Donkey and the Hippopotamus

I think I am going to side with Republicans on this one. Mais pourquoi ? Because let us hew to the law of least hypocrisy. If we are going to conduct a show trial, let's conduct a show trial. Regrettably, the Obama administration seems firmly dedicated to the rule that if it can be half-assed, it must be half-assed.

Leave aside the fact that these decisions are pure whim and fancy, based on no discernible principle. Leave aside the Attorney General's boilerplate prosecutorial insistence that a conviction with the maximum sentence is not only desirably, but inevitable. Leave aside all the back and forth about who will or will not have the opportunity to grandsand at trial, whatever form that trial takes. Concentrate instead on the Obama régime's ludicrous insistence that it carry through with a legal process whose outcome has no relevance except insofar as it could provide a superficial rationale for killing the defendant. That's what's at stake; it's all that's at stake. For all its insane bluster and hubris, our government is not comfortable simply putting the guy against a wall and shooting him. So. We go to trial. If convicted and sentenced to anything less than death, he will be imprisoned forever. If acquitted and not sentenced, he will be imprisoned forever. But if sentenced to death, well, see you at the party!

The Bush people appear almost admirable by comparison. Their military tribunals got bogged in a morass of internal power struggles and legal quibbling, but no one in that administration pretended that tribunals were anything other than what they were: an administrative sentencing process for the presumed guilty. Now that is a travesty, but at least it's a honest travesty, and certainly not without historic precedent in this and other countries. Indeed, one might even call it the civilized norm in the broad sweep of history. Meanwhile, in the present, we must endure the endless invocation of justice from those who would traduce the most basic, fundamental principles of legal due process even as they extol them.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

"I think I am going to side with Republicans on this one. Mais pourquoi ? Because let us hew to the law of least hypocrisy. If we are going to conduct a show trial, let's conduct a show trial."

That's because you're kind of a conservative; I mean you have a few conservative tendencies that can be slightly creepy. I think show trials are good and SHOW TRIALS are bad, and you should too.

IOZ said...

I'm sorry. I wasn't listening.

Agi said...

huh?

Mr.Fundamental said...

"Imagine the kind of person who
would go into politics out of duty: he's insufferably sanctimonious,
has too much money, and is probably better suited to philanthropy than
politics."


yes yes yes GWBush was a true American showman. I love it I love it I love it. the anarchist critique is "necessary" but this is way more fun.

Mr.Fundamental said...

Donny was a good bowler, and a good
man. He was. . . He was one of us.
He was a man who loved the outdoors,
and bowling, and as a surfer explored
the beaches of southern California
from Redondo to Calabassos. And he
was an avid bowler. And a good
friend. He died--he died as so many
of his generation, before his time.
In your wisdom you took him, Lord.
As you took so many bright flowering
young men, at Khe San and Lan Doc
and Hill 364. These young men gave
their lives. And Donny too. Donny
who. . . who loved bowling.

mds said...

Well, it's possible that some additional details of torture will come out because of this, further disillusioning people about state power. But if so, it will be an accidental side effect, not the point.

Hey, though, remember the brownie points Israel got for not simply assassinating Eichmann? Combine that with the Shoah, and they earned official carte blanche to commit whatever war crimes they want forever. Why wouldn't the US want a piece of that? Er, more of a piece? Er, okay, the US has already declared itself completely above international law. But my point, whatever it is, still stands.

Inkberrow said...

It's always time to "follow the money" where "policy" decisions are concerned.

Just as Cheney's "former" associates at Halliburton battened at the military-industrial trough, now Attorney General Holder's "former" law firm, Covington & Burling, already representing several Gitmo detainees, is poised to bill the taxpayer five or six hundred bones an hour for a few years worth of crucial research and motions practice centered around the New York trials.

Even if KSM gets acquitted, Holder's people acknowledge he'll be held "indefinitely", as before. Hope and no change, from a million dollar note.

Anonymous said...

am i the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?!

la Rana said...

hear hear. Either you are interested in ensuring some semblance of "justice", in which case you must accept the possibility that the accussed will suffer no sanction, or you are interested in ensuring punishment, in which case lets stop with the pretense and throw away the key.

State-sanctioned murder puts me in a foul mood, but premeditated state-sanctioned murder, wrapped in claims of fairness and self-aggrandizing righteousness, is a bit much.

Anonymous said...

this is gonna make some good o.j./ollie north (he was just poured into that uniform!) type tv time. so, there's that.

NutellaonToast said...

So, and I know this is going to get a good laugh, what IF Obama actually doesn't like the idea of indefinite detention without a trial, but is sort of stuck with hundreds of people who've had just that for the past 6 years or so? What does he do then? I mean, isn't a trial the only way?

Yeah, if there's an acquittal, prolly he doesn't set the guy free, but, what else can he do at this point? What do you do with these people at all?

NutellaonToast said...

Also, you're not really siding with Republicans so much as applauding their ability to not even try to hide their sociopathy, which really makes them worse in my eyes, not better. Shame shows at least some ability to asses right and wrong, whether or not adhering to it is possible. Of course, they do provide their own bullshit cover stories, such as preventing a trial is a security issue.

But yeah, total win for them!

Anonymous said...

Nihilist: We'll cut off your johnson!
Nihilist #2: Just think about that, KSM.
Nihilist: Yeah, your wiggly penis, KSM.
Nihilist #3: Yeah and maybe we stomp on it and squoosh it, KSM.

Montag said...

we could really do it. we believe in nothing.

IOZ said...

Yeah, if there's an acquittal, prolly he doesn't set the guy free, but, what else can he do at this point? What do you do with these people at all?

At the shelter, they put them down if no one claims them after a few months.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, if there's an acquittal, prolly he doesn't set the guy free, but, what else can he do at this point? What do you do with these people at all?

Funny, they said exactly the same thing about all those black slaves in 1963.

Speaking of which: in their resolution to only illegally imprison/torture/execute those suspects whose convictions cannot be ensured in a criminal trial, Obama and Holder have recreated the triage logic of lynching. After all, some black defendants were actually guilty of something, and the ones who got convicted were not usually strung up by a mob.

USA: You've come a long way, baby.

Anonymous said...

Um. "1863".

Anonymous said...

NT - i hate to do this, but:

were you listening to the dude's story?

Anonymous said...

In summary, it's the Bo is worse than Cheney thesis, part II: you get the same results (dead bad guys), but with better P.R.

Anonymous said...

this is gonna make some good o.j./ollie north (he was just poured into that uniform!) type tv time. so, there's that.

Anybody know anything about KSM?

I mean, will the guy make good TV? Does he speak English well enough to be understood, but with a thick enough accent to scare us Middle-Americans?

What about his lawyers? Are they up to the challenge of turning this into a circus?

If Hannity isn't bitching about this for 18 months or so, I'm going to be pissed.

Montag said...

Anybody know anything about KSM? ... will the guy make good TV?

i understand he is going to be played by Danny DiVito.

mds said...

Yeah, if there's an acquittal, prolly he doesn't set the guy free, but, what else can he do at this point?

Well, this is probably hopelessly pwoggie of me, but ... if there's an acquittal, set the guy free? If nothing else, the 2011 impeachment and conviction would make Joe Biden President, and he's hilarious.

I mean, will the guy make good TV?

I'm not really getting all this focus on his possible jihad-spreading nationally-aired speeches, how telegenic he is, etc. How often does a defendant actually get put on the witness stand, and how often do their utterances get aired on television? Law and Order isn't actually a news program, people.

Inspector Lee said...

Yes darling but do you want a Broadway or a Vegas show trial?

Justin said...

"Meanwhile, in the present, we must endure the endless invocation of justice from those who would traduce the most basic, fundamental principles of legal due process even as they extol them."
Obviously, you're not a golfer.

IOZ said...

Law and Order isn't actually a news program, people.

Sam Waterston fucking objects!

Mr.Fundamental said...

Not exactly a lightweight.

Anonymous said...

mds, what part of "ripped straight from the headlines!!!!!" don't you understand?

Bluesborn said...

"Also, you're not really siding with Republicans so much as applauding their ability to not even try to hide their sociopathy, which really makes them worse in my eyes, not better."
Well there are two sides to every coin yes?I think you pretty much nail it but I'm with IOZ in that there is something to be said for "convictions"? --is that the word?--be they ever so reprehensible.

ExecutedToday said...

The Attorney General draws a lot of water in this town. You don't draw shit, IOZ.

Solar Hero said...

Sam Waterson fucking notepads, fucking pencil sharpeners, fucking chairs, fucking dixie cups...

Christopher said...

Well, now, I'm not sure the Republicans are less hypocritical on this one. Most of the guys who wail about Mr. Sheik Mohammed getting a trial will turn around the next day and talk about how oppressive government run health care would be.

"I want to reduce the size and power of government by giving it the ability to imprison anybody at any time without trial" is not a particularly coherent philosophy.

Although I guess if the people who buy from them don't care about that, I shouldn't either.

Another question I have is why none of these Republicans have yet come out against the concept of trial by jury in general. Is there a coherent principle by which Sheik Mohammed et al should get show trials, but any number of obviously guilty people should go free? Why not just try everybody at military commissions? Why even try anybody at all?

Enron said...

All this would have a lot more credibility if like, Muqtada El-Sadr immediately afterwards held a war crimes tribunal for the people who masterminded the attack on his country.

Anonymous said...

Monsieur, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules

mds said...

mds, what part of "ripped straight from the headlines!!!!!" don't you understand?

I understand all of it, including the "headlines" part. It's not ripped straight from Court TV, is it?

Now, if you'll excuse me, Sam Waterston is tearing my office door down with his teeth.

Anonymous said...

The broad-backed hippopotamus
Rests on his belly in the mud;
Although he seems so firm to us
He is merely flesh and blood.

Flesh-and-blood is weak and frail,
Susceptible to nervous shock;
While the True Church can never fail
For it is based upon a rock.

The hippo's feeble steps may err
In compassing material ends,
While the True Church need never stir
To gather in its dividends.

The 'potamus can never reach
The mango on the mango-tree;
But fruits of pomegranate and peach
Refresh the Church from over sea.

At mating time the hippo's voice
Betrays inflexions hoarse and odd,
But every week we hear rejoice
The Church, at being one with God.

The hippopotamus's day
Is passed in sleep; at night he hunts;
God works in a mysterious way--
The Church can sleep and feed at once.

I saw the 'potamus take wing
Ascending from the damp savannas,
And quiring angels round him sing
The praise of God, in loud hosannas.

Blood of the Lamb shall wash him clean
And him shall heavenly arms enfold,
Among the saints he shall be seen
Performing on a harp of gold.

He shall be washed as white as snow,
By all the martyr'd virgins kist,
While the True Church remains below
Wrapt in the old miasmal mist.

T.S. Eliot