Thursday, February 04, 2010

Clever Hopes. Expiring.

If you begin with the premise that nothing about American society or government is especially admirable, that the Constitutional Republic was a dead-letter by the time it was ratified, that our history is a history of slavery, genocide, aggressive expansion, imperialism, and war, and that our great wealth and global predominance were more an accident of available resources and favorable historical circumstances than any particular national genius, then all this caviling about our dying principles and betrayed values seems a little silly. And that is not to say wrong. As a diagnostician of our constitutional malaise, Gleen Greenwald is very good, and yet these sorts of analyses seem myopically focused on the present moment and the current generations. Maybe the harsher reality is that we are and have always been basically a venal, craven, and cowardly society whose committment to equal rights and democracy has never been more than superficial, a fearful and xenophobic people who long ago beat our ploughshares into swords and are now not reaping what we did not sow.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Who pissed in your cheerios this morning?

Anonymous said...

From Dalia:

"And each time the Republicans move their own crazy-place goal posts, the Obama administration moves right along with them."

the GOP out of power, is leading the president? god bless the prog and their never ending delusions about their masters. also, is dalia not providing cover for the ratchet of insanity by directing her ire at the GOP instead of you know, her beloved donkle and the government they control.

just sayin'

James said...

Maybe Greenwald thinks that people should not be the sort of disgusting, hypocritical brutes they've been throughout virtually all of history?

Anonymous said...

Point taken, although I don't think it's necessary to say there's nothing admirable about all of American society just to point out that all these so-called dying principles and betrayed values never really existed in the first place.

I mean, you know, not especially admirable, but compared to what? The Iroquois?

JRB said...

I like this post.

IOZ said...

The Iroquois had some rad threads, man.

Thanks, Mister Boyd.

Anonymous said...

It's weird that nearly everyone in American politics indulges in this kind of nostalgia. If only we truly adhered to the principles of our founding document, like we used to...

Of course if they gave it up, they'd actually have to come to terms with the world as it is. Heaven forfend.

Anonymous said...

Hiawatha's politics of confederation is a force to be reckoned with. That shit about the five branches representing the strength of the five tribes?! HOT.

Montag said...

well i can see you don't want to be cheered up.

Anonymous said...

Come on, Montag, let's go get us a lane. Also, Ioz, Iroquois is not the preferred nomenclature. Hau de no sau nee, please.

Enron said...

Look, pal, there never was any money. The big Lebowski gave me an empty briefcase, so take it up with him, man.

TGGP said...

Natural resources are a terrible predictor of the wealth of nations. Russia also had lots of land and untapped resources, expanding around the same time as the United States. Why did the U.S (and other members of the Anglosphere, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) wind up so much richer and why did immigrants "vote with their feet" in its favor? Might as well ask why South Korea is so much richer than North Korea. It must be natural resources! Just as Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan owe their stature to the huge reserves of unobtanium they sit on top of. Realistically, Africa has plenty of natural resources (partly since it wasn't developed enough to have already fully exploited them) but is poor. Even first-world nations aren't immune to the "resource curse", hence the "Dutch disease".

Really, what I think IOZ is exhibiting is the fallacy of gray. Some shit smells worse than other shit.

Enron said...

Because they got land for free by stealing it and had people labor for them, virtually for free.

Anonymous said...

As an obituary for Howard Zinn, this is a little bit late.

Anonymous said...

Some shit smells worse than other shit.

Sure dude, but that doesn't make either one "especially admirable."

Greenwald's real problem is that he's a lawyer, and approaches everything from a legal perspective.

Justin said...

"Natural resources are a terrible predictor of the wealth of nations. Russia also had lots of land and untapped resources, expanding around the same time as the United States. Why did the U.S (and other members of the Anglosphere, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) wind up so much richer and why did immigrants "vote with their feet" in its favor?"

There was also the small matter of being invaded by Germany twice in roughly 20 years that killed something like 40 million Russians, essentially 2 generations of men gone. Other than that, just the same.

Anonymous said...

@2:57, if by "approaches everything from a legal perspective" you mean "assumes there is such a thing as a/the rule of law", then yeah.

James said...

People offering a legal perspective on civil rights legislation should get the fuck out of Dodge.

Mr.Fundamental said...

if you will it, Dude, it is no dream.

"I would tell you that subsidized consumer affluence has proven a far more effective method of social control than centrally planned, faux-egalitarianism. I would tell you that someone finally figured out that breadlines breed rebellion but lines at the multiplex for the midnight opening of the next blockbuster do not. I would tell you that keeping up with the Joneses has proven a more effective enforcer of conformity than any book of Dear Leader's wisdom ever did. I would tell you that hope for Vegas vacations beats fear of the work camps for quashing dissent. I would tell you that subtle is better than overt, seemingly random better than routine, carnivalesque better than somber, colorful better than drab. Look at the billions of dollars and man-hours thrown into deciding between a guy from Massachusetts and a gal from New York who evince no convincingly held differences of belief."

it also takes a whole lot of people believing in the same shit, working in the same direction (think magnetically) to get an America to its current condition. you can't ignore the headless ghost running the machinery, or for that matter, the machinery and its workings. and along the way all the ways that it doesn't work how you think or say it should or does, respectively, drop in yer lap, like little gritty pawl springs, proving it an actual mess, and not really a system in any recognizable form. dipshits with a nine toed woman, and all. ISS NOT FAIR! MARK IT ZERO! but you also can't forget that circumstance(s) dictate what the machinery you're running can accomplish, or process, chew up and spit out, whathaveyou. I mean, I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in.

now help me put him back in his chair.

Anonymous said...

Goddamnit Enron, shut the fuck up and go rape yourself already. Asshole.

Anonymous said...

@2:57, if by "approaches everything from a legal perspective" you mean "assumes there is such a thing as a/the rule of law", then yeah.

No, more like he "assumes that the American rule of law is legitimate," which informs his political commentary such that he's incapable of viewing American society or government as based on anything but admirable principles. Ergo, silly caviling.

Montag said...

right on, mr. fun. we're a mob. the machinery of empire is vast. one can imagine a more simple self sustaining machinery, but the impulse to gain power in certain people and in the institutions they establish, which isn't satisfied with subsistence or sustainability, (in the parlance of our times,) becomes an insatiable impulse for even more and more godlike power.

unfortunately there are some people who seek power compulsively and without joy. and in their ambition they tend hold sway with the mob.

more interesting than said power seeking, are the mechanisms and motives that keep The People with the program. the patriotic mythology certainly has its role to play.

Anonymous said...

"our great wealth [was] more an accident of available resources and favorable historical circumstances than any particular national genius"

pffft. whatever ioz. you're out of your element.

JRB said...

Adding to what Justin has said, I would say natural resources are a very good predictor of the wealth of nations: The nations that appropriate them become wealthy.

frijoles junior said...

Natural resources or no, that "favorable historical circumstances" packs quite a wallop.

With a bit of luck, almost anything is possible.

bobbo said...

"our great wealth [was] more an accident of available resources and favorable historical circumstances than any particular national genius"

Well, whatever it was, I hope we can agree it had nothing to do with anything special about the people who live here. Exceptionalism I find especially grating.

Soj said...

What's funny to see here is all the battling over whether the propaganda ghosts of the 1920's are real or must be refuted :)

Charles F. Oxtrot said...

As a diagnostician of our constitutional malaise, Gleen Greenwald is very good...

Compared to what? A rock? A stick? A grain of sand?

weaver said...

Why did the U.S (and other members of the Anglosphere, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) wind up so much richer[?]

Questions like this remind me of the downmarket anthropic grift our science teacher (Christian school, not American) tried on us one time - there must be a God watching out for us because, despite all the things that could have gone wrong, life still existed on planet Earth. I'm moderately proud that even as a slip of a lad it took me but a moment to realise this construction omitted an important qualifier: "at the moment".

Inkberrow said...

Charles F---

Nearly in agreement, for once!

"Glenn Greenwald is very good...." compared to a rock, a stick, a grain of sand, and Charles F. Oxtrot. Even working together as a team.

Anonymous said...

Uh oh! Chuckie just done sniped Glenn Greenwald's bullshit, ayup!

I swear to Odin, Foxtrot, you have got to be the most functionally retarded motherfucker to ever comment here. How does none of the general intelligence manage to rub off on you?

Mr.Fundamental said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mr.Fundamental said...

I resent that remark, nony ten twentysixy.

Anonymous said...

weaver, Mailer has a passage in an interview similar to what your teacher told you. He says something like "there is a god because the species that were killed off before us and weren't able to attain enlightenment and empiricism were much uglier than man. Therefor god killed them off and gave us the gifts to dominate them because we're better looking."

It's worth finding, it's rather incredible as it amounts to "I'd fuck me, would you fuck me?"

It's this type of shit coupled with his later works that makes one wonder if Executioner's Song was written by someone else.

Anonymous said...

here it is;

I see God, rather, as a Creator, as the greatest artist. I see human beings as His most developed artworks. I also see animals as His artworks. When I think of evolution, what stands out most is the drama that went on in God as an artist. Successes were also marred by failures. I think of all the errors He made in evolution as well as of the successes. In marine life, for example, some fish have hideous eyes—they protrude from the head in tubes many inches long. Think of all those animals of the past with their peculiar ugliness, their misshapen bodies, worm life, frog life, vermin life, that myriad of insects—so many unsuccessful experiments. These were also modes the Artist was trying—this great artist, this divine artist—to express something incredible, and it was not, for certain, an easy process. Sometimes a young artist has to make large errors before he or she can go further.

Mailer must have suffered a stroke before this interview.

read Executioner's Song and try and tell me these thoughts are not from an entirely different mind.

Charles F. Oxtrot said...

Ah hah hah hah hah. I'm stupid because I'm not paid to lie to people with legal-ish prose?

Right. Gotcha.

Yep, Greenwald's a regular legal savant. That's why he's so wrong so often.

Gotcha!

Inkberrow said...

Charles F.---

I think you were just being called to account for your latest hyperbolic sloganeering. You're not Stupid, and neither is Greenwald a Legal Savant. (See how it works when you turn the burner doown to medium?) For your information, however, you are approximately the middling distance from stupid as he is from savant.

Dunc said...

It's weird that nearly everyone in American politics indulges in this kind of nostalgia.

Not really - practically everyone has always indulged in that kind of nostalgia, at all times and in all places.

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