[Murtha] was a complicated political figure, but he will be remembered for something very brave: it's impossible to overestimate how important it was to have this conservative, ex-marine, super patriot Democrat step up on Iraq at a time when the country needed him. He led the way for the Democrats to finally find the courage to oppose Bush and I'm not sure it would have happened without him.To which, once more, we offer a very loud, Hey Lady, Fuck YOU!!
77 comments:
Christ. Murtha spent his entire career as a pimp for military contractors; he never met a war he didn't want to bankroll to the hilt. No wonder so many internet-liberals are rending their garments over his grave; the man's the perfect symbol of their "anti-war" movement.
He led the way for the Democrats to finally find the courage to oppose Bush and I'm not sure it would have happened without him.
And it's a mighty good thing they started to oppose Bush too, otherwise the wars might still be going on.
Is this a ... what day is this?
I thought this was going to be a post about football.
K (You know, either about the fall of St. Peyton, or about the other team with 53 of 'em.)
Maybe Digby can pitch her fantastical tale of an alternate reality resplendent with rainbows and Democrats who found "the courage to oppose Bush" to James Cameron.
I made my comment to this thread back in the snow day thread, before this thread was up.
So Murtha got like a three-year mulligan on the antiwar thingie 'cause he was all brave and a Marine and a congressman and shit? Damn. Much better than all those gutless communistic islamosexuals that were marching for peace and shit. Fucking hippizoids.
his was a principled stance against the war, in the parlance of our times. whereas pacifism is generally considered an emotional problem.
[Murtha] was a complicated political figure, but he will be remembered for something very brave: it's impossible to overestimate how important it was to have this conservative, ex-marine, super patriot Democrat step up on Iraq at a time when the country needed him. He led the way for the Democrats to finally find the courage to oppose Bush and I'm not sure it would have happened without him.
His vocal opposition to the war paved the way for the election of Barack Obama and his administration that also opposed the war. Murtha's response courage was responsible for the quick end to the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He also helped provide important political cover for the president who closed Guantanamo Bay and refused to re-authorize the PATRIOT Act.
Is this your signature, Larry?
Representative Murtha should be remembered for the bravery he displayed by rushing to denounce American soldiers as murderers, based upon the uncorroborated word of Iraqis. The political pressure Murtha applied resulted in criminal trials for the Haditha marines, a mixed bag: not guilty in military court; guilty in the mainstream press, members of which which helped Murtha onto the comfortable anti-Bush/Cheney bandwagon amid encomia the likes of which our Courageous Representative had never known. Let's not let Murtha's legacy go the way of Dan Rather's. After all, when it comes to undermining the American military and decrying American exercise of self-interest abroad, we all know that the end justifies the means.
In fairness, Murtha did change his mind on the war although his pork barreling was legendary.
Just because we're bereaved doesn't make us saps!
Inkberrow,
"when it comes to undermining the American military and decrying American exercise of self-interest abroad, we all know that the end justifies the means."
Absolutely! "By any means necessary," to quote a great man.
Funny how a few discouraging words are all it takes to undermine the mighty American military. That thing is more fragile than one of Inkberrow's erections.
by rushing to denounce American soldiers as murderers,
Before I saw that this was Inky, I thought Murtha might actually have done this. I had about 30 seconds of respect for the guy, something like "wow, the old bastard told the truth at least once..."
You know, when Inkberrow talks about Murtha, I almost like the deceased. But nope, he was just one more expediency and no true servant of any ideal I'd get behind.
That said, Inkberrow, it's not the soldiers who are the murderers, but the Air Force. Get it right.
"when it comes to undermining the American military and decrying American exercise of self-interest abroad"
who the fuck are you, Rumsfeld's attache?
look, aside from the fact the entire war was one massive illegal war crime, meaning all the dead Iraqis are the fault of our government and military, there have been countess well-documented cases of our trigger-happy goons murdering Iraqis, and with impunity in the vast majority of cases. just because a military jury let them get away with it doesn't mean it didn't happen in Haditha as well.
Oh, what a bunch of angry, He-Man, Manichean Chomskyite leftists you all are!
人生最重要的一件事，就是從生活中認識你自己。 ..................................................
what a Murthafucker.
Inkberrow,
So, bogging the military down and spending untold billions of dollars in a futile attempt to make U.S.-style "democracies" out of Iraq and Afghanistan is exercising American self-interest abroad? Christ, our leaders are dumber than I thought.
Oh, and don't worry, Murtha didn't really mean any of that nasty stuff he said. That was just political posturing.
Well, we gotta take our heroes where we find em. Murtha wasn't perfect but, then again, who is? Not me, not you. Scarlett Johansson perhaps. Feet of clay and all that.
America can think whatever it wants to, dude. are you America? am I America? I have no idea. who does? the point is that America thinks it is acting in its own self-interest. which may or may not be the case in the end. but whatever America is or does is not really up to you or I, now is it? America is going to do as America does. it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says or does about America, so let's not kid ourselves by thinking that anyone that prefers America has any more control over it than those that do not prefer America.
I think that everyone here that is bothered by Inky should enjoy the fact that he is buckled up tight with all of us in the giant BUS that is America. is our only recourse to fling boogers at each other? probably.
taking a principled stand against madness is just silly.
I'm pretty sure I am America, and I like to get drunk and shoot up the bus.
lol
@MiRy
The very point of this blog is that one needs to look beyond "finding the right heroes".
Freedom IS outside the fence.
The Christians
Maybe I should change my moniker to
Capt'n Obvious
The Christians
lol. you're telling me what 'the very point of this blog' is? hahaha. get a nic, dick.
BLAWG is indeed contagious.
BEWARE
@MiRy
Oh, so you're justa trolling by.
Sorry, my bad.
The Christians
The 'point of this blog' is apparent to anyone who cares to read it regularly. I've been reading it from the first week or so of its inception. You obviously don't know me.
Danny---
War crimes a "fact"? Please alert the appropriate officials immediately, both here and at The Hague. Attorney General Holder and his department is supposed to be nonpolitical, and his boss is from the other party anyway. Good luck! You sound just as Brave as latter-day hero Jack Murtha.
Our soldiers guilty for all practical purposes of mass murder in Iraq, regardless of the proofs in that pesky Haditha case at issue (or any other)? All of a sudden I understand much better the village courts under the Khmer Rouge, and Southern white jurors trying black defendants. It's all about the correct result, based on the uniforms folks were issued at birth or in Poli Sci 110.
Joe---
Our self-interest may well have been misserved, as you suggest, but the real thoughtcrime here for our mod-proggie friends is failing to react violently to the notion that America is entitled to consider her own self-interest and then act upon it in good faith. Like other nations have done since the dawn of time, and continue to do today, of course, but the difference is that America has Lots of Money, you see, let alone the nonpareil horrors of Slavery and Jim Crow.
forget the goons that carried out the war and their many despicable crimes, this was an illegal war of aggression and in a just world Bush, Cheney and their co-conspirators would be spending the remainder of their pathetic existence behind bars for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Danny---
Yeah, man, Power to the Left-Wing People! Not kidding---the rest are dumb and and weak and corrupt like our establishment leaders, right? So what's the answer, plenary power on a rotating basis between Greg Palast, Markos Moulitsas, and Michael Eric Dyson, with veto power to Wen Jiabao?
why do you assume I'm left-wing? I despise war criminals no matter their party. that assclown Kos in particular can blow me. how about we get rid of these MIC/AIPAC/corporate stooges we have now and select our leaders via lottery? couldn't be any worse.
America has one fucked up Pollyanna Principle complex.
...America is entitled to consider her own self-interest and then act upon it in good faith.
Did you just personify and feminize "America"?
Didn't we just go through this corporation vs person controversy?
"Our soldiers" Inky?
When was the last time the FedGov goons took an order autonomously originated from you?
Capt'n Obvious (fka The Christians)
right.Mind if I do a j?
America can think whatever it wants to, dude. are you America? am I America? I have no idea. who does?
dude...
the point is that America thinks it is acting in its own self-interest
Are you talking about the USG, or American citizens? Because I'm pretty sure the meaningless, racially diverse and culturally opposed aggregate known as "the citizens" oppose the wars. If you mean the USG, then yeah it's acting in its self-interest, war is the health of the state.
taking a principled stand against madness is just silly.
The pointlessness of your point is exceeded only by the pointlessness of my point that your point is pointless
Well,
Against madness one can take only principled stands - that's why it's madness it is the opposite of reason and principle.
Thinking you're taking a stand against madness by using the tools afforded you by the madmen themselves (e.g. voting, petitioning, filling writs, et cetera) now THAT's silly.
Capt'n Obvious
Danny---
The only conservatives who moan about AIPAC have names like James von Brunn. Jews, pardon, "Israelis" are about the only place they and the extreme Left meet.
Anonymi---
You progs routinely forbid America what other nations practice as a matter of course. How does Mexico handle its southern borders teeming with poor illegals from Guatemala looking for work and sustenance? Who cares? Mexico isn't fat from the ill-gotten gains of Judeo-Christian capitalism, and Mexico didn't make Maya Angelou cry injustice.
To what Anon@2:10 and Capt'n Obvious said, I'd just add that I can have an opinion on whether a certain action serves America's interest (however you want to define "America") without believing that my opinion is going to affect said action in any way whatsoever. Believing the latter, I'll grant, would be silly.
Ay, poor America,
Him, her, it, or they?
Oy vey, more like it.
The nonsense of assigning person-hood to an concept. Not even a living being, or at least a thing. A concept! What good can come out of such strong and widespread delusion?!?
Capt'n Obvious
lol
wots un "American citizen"? lulzlbub
Anon @ 10:32---
Just because it's something you yourself are rarely burdened with, nevertheless don't underestimate the power of an idea. For example, forget America and her referents for now---be especially wary of volks who get all worked about their Vaterland. And Mother Russia is the world's largest woman, and one of the most powerful.
@Ink
"For example, forget America and her referents for now"
I though you (especially!) would be aware of the strongly worded advice:
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye
So it behooves us to speak of "America" crap before we attempt to teach others on their foolishness.
Capt'n Obvious (fka The Christians)
so clearly you're cool with unprovoked wars of aggression, which is mass murder, so long as the Liar-in-Chief claims it's in our "national interest".
just to get a handle on exactly how morally bankrupt you are, is there anything our government does that you find morally objectionable?
rendition? torture? judge/jury/executioner drone strikes? endless detention without due process?propping up other shitty tyrants or repressive or apartheid governments so long as they know who's boss? anything? throw me a bone here.
or is it pretty much anything goes because, ya know, other scumbag governments do the same things or would if they could?
Anon @ 1:36---
We speak of America crap every waking moment, to the exclusion of America everything else. We wallow in Bad America like it was an ass-milk bath. Meanwhile, we don't need to "teach" other tribes anything---we just need to kill them before they kill us, so long as they're of a mind to it.
Danny---
No problem with the list of ills you deplore. Trouble is you only ever squeal like a stuck pig at America's entries on the ledger. Yes, as Americans, self-righteous jingoism should be strongly resisted, but you and yours occupy the other extreme, with the same medals for sanctimony on your chests.
even defeatists need a time out from time to time.
America is not the issue here, Dude! I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line you DO NOT -
God damn you Walter! You fuckin' asshole! Everything's a fuckin' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Vietnam? What the FUCK, has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about?
They were Nazis, Dude?
Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
When will you find these guys? I mean, do you have any promising leads?
"wots un "American citizen"?
IDK, basically, someone... who can vote... in america?
Thats a stumper fun, how do you do it
It's very difficult to deal with the Democrats, most of whom seem to be in some somnolent state of denial about their own political fortunes, and it is vital that the liberal rank and file push them as hard as they can to end this sick, corrupt symbiosis between Wall Street and the federal government. But no matter how feckless they are are, it's important to also remember that the alternative is worse.
- Digby
keep voting then, I think it's working just like it's supposed to!
Inky
Spare me on the US's need to confront Russia, or whoever happens to be the hoggoblin du jour. Adolf had both hands around that georgian asshole's neck. But Adolf had pissed off the brits because he had the audacity to bomb London.
So between him and Stalin he was the one who had to go.
So kiss my big fat kulak-cum-papist ass, you Molech worshipping spawn of commie-loving dregs of England!
Capt'n Obvious
I've been trying to wean him.
Fuckin' A, man. I got a rash, man.
'wots un "American citizen"?'
Someone who's compelled to pay taxes and obey the laws passed by the congressional representatives of "America."
What is this bullshit, man? madness don't fucking care! It don't matter to madness! But you're not fooling madness! You might fool the fucks in the league office, but you don't fool madness! It's bush league psych-out stuff! Laughable, man! madness would've fucked you in the ass Saturday, it'll fuck you in the ass next Wednesday instead!
ZING!
"Christ. Murtha spent his entire career as a pimp for military contractors"-Chris M.
You have this relationship almost completely backwards. The pimps are the contractors and their ho's work in congress.
"... Trouble is you only ever squeal like a stuck pig at America's entries on the ledger. Yes, as Americans, self-righteous jingoism should be strongly resisted, but you and yours occupy the other extreme, with the same medals for sanctimony on your chests"
-Inky
Wrong as usual of course. The primary concerns of an American citizen should be the crimes of his/her own state before all others. As there is no nation on the planet that can match the US in sheer aggression over the past 60 years the focus of our energies seems rather obvious.
Coldtype---
Telling comment from you: "The primary concern of an American citizen should be the crimes of his/her own state before all others".
Why is that, exactly? Shouldn't it depend at least in part on what those respective crimes are? Is this an America-only moral, cuz we're the Worst, or do you imagine Chinese and Russian, Mexican and Saudi leaders sweating over such niceties, now or ever? If we just impose our values on them, I suppose. But that takes time.
Ah, but you do posit Bad America in absolute terms after all! Unrivalled in "Sheer Aggression" over "the past 60 years". We Arrogant Americans do appreciate you placing us on the leeward side of Hitler (albeit barely!), but a clarification of your methodology might nevertheless be in order. If it's mass-killing For The People, it's excluded, right?
all this America talk is making me thirsty.
Anyone notice how Inkberrow never makes a positive statement? It's always flirtatious or oblique or denunciation. Never an "America rocks," or anything so directly addressable. Fucking powder puff.
I love Funyuns, ballcaps, and Cuneyt. And I'm a veritable Draco on WorldNetDaily.
Inky dixit:
"The primary concern of an American citizen should be the crimes of his/her own state before all others".
Why is that, exactly?"
Oh, because you have very strong worded advice, from the supreme Christian authority:
"How can you think of saying, 'Friend, let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,' when you can't see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite!"
And, also, beause our God is a Gelous God, who doesn't take gently to being put on the same level (or lower) than Molech.
But you being a baptist (or somesuch) I know that for y'all it's like "whatever the meaning of 'is' is". Ergo, Beelzebub can sprung angel wings overnight, if so required by the current needs of "America".
Cap'n Obvious
Anon @ 8:04/Cap'n Obvious---
Something tells me you contemptuously eschew Biblical ethics, so it's curious you'd cite them over such an important issue. But staying with your charming efforts to reach out, I believe you're having reading comprehension difficulties nonetheless.
Contrary to the standard gloss on this famous lesson from secular-liberal feebs, the moral isn't, "Don't point out Motes and Logs or anything. Indictments are Naughty!". Quite the contrary. Log-boy has no business putting down Mote-boy, but Logs and Motes do of course exist as such, and bear mentioning, as appropriate. Logs are Bigger, and Worse.
@Ink
If your passage meant to imply that I "eschew" statolatry, even when New Testament themed. Well, I do my best, but I'm only a (very) fallen human.
OTOH, I do have the advantage of belonging to a Christian sect that had its liaisons with Ceasar - Leviathan. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! So I know that an August 23rd 1572 leads straight to a September 2nd 1792. On the flip side, how many divisions does the Commmie secgen of CCCP command nowadays?
No, there is no mixing between God and Cesar, or Cesar-Molech. I don't care how melifluously your sect's pastors and rhetors argue it. They are wrong.
I'm sorry I cannot formulate this matter more persuasively.
Also, even if that is a speck in thine eye, by reason of proximity to thine eye, it is bound to be much larger in your eye than thine neighbour's beam in thine eye.
Thus, you'd still be wise to remove the speck in thine eye, before you 'offer' help with thine neighbour's beam.
Capt'n Obvious
Reformulatin':
So brother, even a speck in thine aye, by reason of proximity to thine aye, is larger in thine aye than thine neighbour's beam in thine aye.
Thus, thou would be wise to pull the speck out off thine aye, before thou 'offered' help to thine neighbour's aye.
Capt'n Obvious
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