Friday, February 12, 2010

Pot-au-feu

You can replace every mention of "Guantanamo" in Michael Gerson's article with "Bergen-Belsen" and you'll get a general sense of the type of individual its author actually is.

As a genre, these sorts of evil-but-necessary apologia are as predictable as the failure of the Pittsburgh municipal government to clear the PJ McArdle Roadway after snow and just as vexing. Now, I am not going to play the liberal hand-wringing game, bemoaning the betrayal of "our" values. The problem posed by Guantanamo and its even eviler brethren around the world is not that it is un-American, but that it is inhuman.

I am no great believer in natural law. The idea of a core of transcendent rights whose basic forms just so happen to correspond to the conventions of Western legal traditions strikes me as not only philosophically dubious, but essentially silly. And yet insofar as individual human consciousness seems to exist, conscience seems to dictate that we respect it. I admit this is not the most rigorous conceptualizing of the inviolability of the individual, but it strikes me as the most compelling despite its limitations. Only extraordinary necessity gives a human community the right to violate the autonomy of another human being, and the more intense the violation, the more extraordinary the required necessity. Gerson and his ilk argue that that is precisely the ethical calculation at play in their defenses of the concentration camps, but their arguments are self-refuting. How many times does Gerson mention "symbolism" and "symbols" in these little missives? "Symbolism, it turns out, can be costly, even dangerous." It's a statement entirely lacking in content. It doesn't mean anything. So . . . we don't want to send a symbol, because it is dangerous, because terrorists understand symbols, so we must symbolically maintain a different sort of symbol, which we cannot undo, for in the undoing is the dangerous kind of symbolism . . . The mind reels, the brain relents. This shit makes tautology look like the proof of the Poincaré conjecture. It's the opposite of moral reasoning. It's too stupid to be ruthless and too ruthless to be sentimental. It's mush, the soft and flavorless end of an empire turning into a boiled chicken.

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

I love his reference to the Nuremberg tribunals -- under the legal standards formulated at those trials, he'd be in for a lengthy prison sentence just for having written this article, as an active abettor of torture and other war crimes.

periscopedepth said...

From the article:

"Guantanamo" has become a synonym for "prison." Actually, it is a 45-square-mile U.S. Navy base, complete with a McDonald's and a Subway.

... okay, Gerson has to be in on the joke, right?

George Jones said...

I liked the next bit to:

The Guantanamo Bay Children and Youth Program sounds like a violation of the Geneva Conventions. But there are families stationed here needing child care.

See? It's all perfectly normal. The cafeteria serves meatloaf. They even watched the Superbowl! America as usual, everyone.

Cüneyt said...

Eric Holder seems "to do a lot of unthinking"? Gerson seems to do a lot of unwriting. God, what an apt analogy. This is boiled chicken, limp and flavorless and not worth the effort, in either making or consuming.

Anonymous said...

"makes tautology look like the proof of the Poincaré conjecture"

when you're good ...

Peter said...

So, who else thought this was gonna be a Foodie Friday?

Mr.Fundamental said...

I'm so confused: are we scared of terrorists, or resolute in our belief that terrorists are pathetic, despicable, harmless, worthless creatures? they're pathetic until they're not. they're terrorizing until we get a hold of them and reveal their truly pathetic nature.

it must take a peculiar mind to suss out such a fine distinction.

I will remain here in my ignorance, of course. I like it here just fine thank you. I'm such a simpleton.

INKY CAN YOU HELP

Anonymous said...

So tell me tautology did not solve Poincare's conjecture. Go ahead.

Inkberrow said...

Anon @ 9:23---

(check my street Latin!) Arguably, you're correct, but only because the Nuremberg trials were ex post facto or ad hoc proceedings, immediately setting precedent by dint of the unprecedented and the (transactionally) sui generis. Remember how quickly the Clinton Democrats forgot the "extra" in extraordinary where impeachment was concerned? Now everybody and their brother is a victim of crimes against Humanity. Conan O'Brien, for instance.



Mr. Fun---

Are asking for my help or for my caricaturer, "Inky"? For what it's worth, he's pretty two-dimensional.....

Mr.Fundamental said...

whatever is most fun for you, man.

Anonymous said...

So are we at least getting some soup?

Jess said...

I guess I don't care so much about semiotics. That said, imprisoning suspected Muslim terrorists in Gitmo was a fuck-up. If you want to get rid of them, shoot them in the head, wherever you find them in the Eastern Hemisphere. If you want to torture them, do so in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Malaysia, etc. If you want to serve some political purpose by admitting you have them in custody, so sorry, now you have to obey the Constitution. You have been elected to an executive office; you have to make a choice. Now we read that even W had realized his error by sometime in 2005. How can his apologists be so far behind the times?

It's clear from the foregoing that I don't think natural law or similar arguments are the right way to show this. The reason we fight at this barricade, civil rights for foreign nationals suspected of terrorism, is so we don't have to fight at the next one. The same monstrous apparatus that our employees in government erect to make others' lives miserable, they will happily turn on us. Probably when we start asking why they have such ridiculous pay and benefits packages while the rest of the country is broke.

The difference between me and, apparently, most voters, is that I distrust the government more than I fear the terrorists. I think this position is the only empirically reasonable one.

Justin said...

They were Nazis, dude?

Joseph Dietrich said...

Oh come on Justin, they were threatening castration. Are we gonna split hairs here?

TGGP said...

"inhuman"
I am a man, I consider nothing that is human alien to me. Those who deem acts committed by humans to be inhuman have a distorted view of humanity.

Seconding Inkberrow on Nuremberg. We should have just plainly admitted it was victor's justice and shot them without trial. A dictatorship can make up any law it wants to fit its actions and is not beholden to the law of anyone else. They were in the docket because they lost the war (war by its nature being a mass violation of "natural rights"), Curtis LeMay plainly admitted that he would have been if the tables had turned the other way.

la Rana said...

The imposition of uncompromising brutality on "teh bad people" is an American virtue.

Whose side are you on, anyway?

Anonymous said...

So no soup then?

Same Anon as 9:23 said...

Re Inberrow and TGGP above:

Agreed on all counts. There was a lot of law written on the fly at Nuremberg, including the modern notion of "crimes against humanity".

Which is yet another reason you'd think torture advocates would be careful to never mention the word "Nuremberg". Its findings were so sweeping that no national leader (or his apologists) should ever acknowledge that it happened, lest people get ideas.

Of course, I also happen to think that the standards applied at Nuremberg were by and large the right ones, and I would love to see them applied universally. The only problem with this plan, of course, is that it would take the world's carpenters years to build all the necessary scaffolds.

Anonymous said...

That said, imprisoning suspected Muslim terrorists in Gitmo was a fuck-up. If you want to get rid of them, shoot them in the head, wherever you find them in the Eastern Hemisphere. If you want to torture them, do so in Egypt, Morocco, Turkey, Malaysia, etc. If you want to serve some political purpose by admitting you have them in custody, so sorry, now you have to obey the Constitution.

It was a fuck up in that it didn't work. The point of Gitmo, of admitting that, yes, the US government does these things to people, was to set precedent. From then on, they could do it openly, and no one would be able to say "so sorry, now you have to obey the Constitution" (or Geneva Conventions). Like so much else Cheney did, this was mostly about getting people used to barbarism, to make man's inhumanity to man normative.

Anonymous said...

"The only problem with this plan, of course, is that it would take the world's carpenters years to build all the necessary scaffolds.
"

You'd be amazed how quickly can corporations ramp up production nowadays.

Having said that, Nuremberg was beyond "victor's justice" - maybe an exercise in WASPish righteousness? Having the ruskies on the bench pretty much ruined the exercise, but it was an attempt to slightly more than Reich's OstFront einsatzgruppen.

Enron said...

Questions Gerson cannot ask: Why is there an American military base in Cuba? Why is a concentration camp called Camp Freedom? What is a war on terrorism? How do you know they people you are torturing are "terrorists" without evidence? What is the efficacy of torture? Does it matter? If the American leadership is considered to be enemies in some parts of the world, should there be Nurmeburg trials for them?

MichaelRyerson said...

And for all their breastbeating about ends justifying means, about practicality and necessity, in the end it doesn't work.

Anonymous said...

After reading your blog for a while, I know what you are against. But what exactly are you for? (Except good classical music.)

I think your just anti.

IOZ said...

I am for anal sex with about a 70/30 top/bottom preference and local agriculture wherever possible. Everything else is a luxury.

Rowan said...

Im just pro.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 5:41

And what exactly from the decades preceeding / following that brilliant clip would you have as proof to the error of "the way of the anti"?

Capt'n Obvious

Flip said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Flip said...

@10:47

So defensive!

***

"It's mush, the soft and flavorless end of an empire turning into a boiled chicken."

Bite into the mushy soft end of an underboiled chicken and say flavorless five times without puking.

"[T]oo ruthless to be sentimental."

I don't know. Sentimentalists are sheer appetites, like sharks

What did the empire start out as?

Moloch-Agonistes said...

So you do have program!

Anonymous said...

So, Gerson's a nine elevener?

"If tribunals are now considered just for some detainees, why not for the Sept. 11 conspirators?"

It may not be pretty, or even edible, but sometimes, of necessity, justice must be served. And garnish, it turns out, can be costly, even dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Y'all are just to into yerselfs. Torture is wrong and doesn't work. If we ain't 'the good guys' an' not have concentration camps an' shit, well... we're the bad guys.

When did all this shit get relativistic? When we started doin' it?

Anonymous said...

Apparently. We can -talk- about anything it seems.

Anonymous said...

It's almost like I'm talking to myself. Which of course I am... but that makes me so much like so many others here. Joining is fun!

Invisible Political Blog said...

its february 14, did anyone else notice friedman mention khat in today's column...thought it was funny based on feb 10's post

Inkberrow said...

Anon @ 3:28---

I'd propose the following correction---"torture is wrong but it does work". Its opponents somehow wrest "ineffectiveness" from its failure to produce a concise memo with only the desired data, wrapped in an attractive ribbon. Forget roadside checkpoint dragnets too: almost all the information you get from the folks you importune is worthless, and the bad guys might shoot and try to run away once you've identified them....

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Anonymous said...

what? no post? shomer Presidents' day?

annie oakley said...

Oh brother...Gitmo is no Bergen-Belson. The Marines there are not monsters. They are protecting your ass faces. Would you all just grow up?

RedPhillip said...

Ms Oakley,

Bullshit. The US military protects empire, not me.

Cüneyt said...

Ms. Oakley, could you please explain how they protect our ass faces?

Mr.Fundamental said...

IT'S LIKE LENIN SAID CUNEYT!

IOZ said...

Ass faeces?

MichaelRyerson said...

Yes, as Quirinius would have said.

Anonymous said...

" The only problem with this plan, of course, is that it would take the world's carpenters years to build all the necessary scaffolds."

If by "years" you mean "till the end of time, because the crimes are being committed more quickly than the world's carpentars could possibly build the necessary Scaffolds, then you are correct.

Anonymous said...

Ink,

Torture indeed "works," in the sense that it achieves it's true objectives, which are to (1) terrorize, and (2) produce false confessions to justify otherwise indefensible policies.

Now, it doesn't "work" in the sense of producing useful intelligence (and is on balance massively counterproductive in that regard, as interegation methods not involving torture are often surprising useful), but then it's silly to even debate that question, as that has never been and is not now the purpose of torture. Its like arging whether raping children helps preseve world peace. The people doing the fuckign aren't exacting doing so in the hope that by fucking children will bring peace to the middle east.

Now, I suspect that you know that (I certainly wouldn't admit to being so mentally addled as to actually believe the "torture works canard), but I understand the need to pretend otherwise as a means of conning the rubes (who themselves mostly don't even buy it, but need a sop to their ostensibly christian morality). But really, this isn't the right audience for that kind of shit.

Inkberrow said...

Anon @ 1:39---

Respectfully disagree. For what it's worth, I agree torture should be banned period, on principle, including water-boarding. Otherwise, the thinking error of those who for some reason feel obliged to supplement "principle", is similar to misconceptions about why polygraphs e.g., are not admissible in criminal court to prove guilt or innocence. Hint---contrary to popular opinion, it's NOT because they aren't reliable. They aren't reliable ENOUGH (maybe 85%?), so they aren't worth the attendant risks and costs, as a matter of public policy. As, incidentally, with roadside checkpoints on New Year's Eve.

Torture works if the goal is extraction of discrete information. All seem to agree that "anyone will say anything" they think the torturer wants, and surprise surprise, "anything" here includes the desired information, from whomsoever possesses it, whether or not is accompanied by extraneous material. It's the professionals' job not to proceed on spec, to hone what they are looking for upfront, and to seperate the wheat from the chaff afterwards. If the true magic words are said anytime anyhow as a consequence of the torture, it "worked". Like the dragnet, which inconvenienced and upset so many, the ignorant would say "unnecessarily".