Beyond getting people killed, WikiLeaks' actions make it less likely that Afghans and foreign intelligence services (whose reports WikiLeaks also exposed) will cooperate with the United States in the future. And, as former CIA director Mike Hayden has pointed out, the disclosures are a gift to adversary intelligence services, and they will place a chill on intelligence sharing within the United States government. The harm to our national security is immeasurable and irreparable.Aftergood, who is affiliated with the Federation of Americna Scientists, is basically a liberal good-government type, a technocratic apologist who believes that civic officers and public servants with generally good intentions sometimes go astray; that secrecy is a sort of pathogen attacking the body politic; that "sunlight is the best medicine." Were the principle focus of his work the operations of the local school board or county council, it would be less laughable, certainly less naive.
-Odious little Troll, Marc Thiessen
I think a lot of their talk about fighting injustice is pretty woolly and a little hard to take seriously. Whether the good outweighs the bad, there are lots of potential consequences of just this latest release that may turn out to be really positive and constructive, including a change of course in the war, perhaps, and there are potential consequences that are disastrous, including the potential loss of life and future difficulties in assembling new intelligence networks, because sources will lack confidence that the U.S. can keep the secrets it commits to keeping.
-"Open government" advocate, Steven Aftergood
Marc Thiessen is a 500-lb. child-raping, blood-addicted reptilian shapeshifter come to this earth to sup upon the tender marrow of little girls.
Interestingly, what they share is the very strange presumption that a stateless association with no national loyalties or affiliations has some affirmative duty to consider "future difficulties in assembling new intelligence networks" prior to publishing formerly secret information. Arthur Silber's archives abound with proof that there is no such thing as "intelligence" in this sense (here is one good example from a few years back), and there's no sense in my retreading that territory. Let's assume instead, solely for the sake of argument, that the United States does have intelligence networks and that these networks do provide information, secret information, necessary for the opperation of the American "security" apparati. All right. What would that mean? It would mean that they exist in order to further the ability of the United States to invade, conquer, and occupy foreign countries. We already know that that serial murderer and major swine flu vector Marc Thiessen believes this to be an essential and praiseworthy purpose, but you, Steven Aftergood, what do you think?
Aftergood actually tells us what he thinks. He slips in a grudging line about the "good" that might come from the leaked docoments.
[T]here are lots of potential consequences of just this latest release that may turn out to be really positive and constructive, including a change of course in the war, perhaps[.]This is strikingly similar to Katie Hossenfeffer's view that if only Obama knew what was going on in Afghanistan, he'd put a stop to it right quick now. And yet it presumes even more, because it supposes that if only good people, nice people, competent, technocratic, meritocratic, well-educated, liberal-minded, neutrally-positioned, rational, reality-based people (people, perhaps, much like Steven Aftergood) were in a position to "produce" intelligence and to develop those networks, then we would embark upon a less disastrous course; we'd have a kinder, gentler operation; we'd catch that bad ol' bin Laden. Etc.
But obviously, obviously, intelligence is in the service of policy and not the other way around. Information does not precede invasion. When Steven Aftergood talks about "reform," he is ultimately taking a position in favor of the smoother operations of empire. I'd bet the week's pay that he voted for Obama. Change! When Assange calls his organization activist, he means actively working in opposition to the American empire. Aftergood actually understands this, and tskingly disapproves:
So I look with a little bit of concern at the broadsides that WikiLeaks is launching at the classification system. They seem oriented not towards fixing it but towards defeating it.The meanies! They just want to tear things down. They don't want to build. They don't want to fix. What we need is an effective and efficient classification system! How else will we achieve our goals and benchmarks? How, I ask ya? How?!
As for boy-butt defiling grandmother cannibal Marc Thiessen's take on Wikileaks, all I know is that when the Washington Post editorial page starts calling you a terrorists, you can be sure you're onto something.
31 comments:
You're giving that guy too much credit. He's no monster, just a half-bright pussy who'll never live down having attended a women's college, same as Jonah Goldberg. His piece doesn't even make sense. He wants to nuke Iceland for the War Diary when all indications are that Wikileaks published in reliance on Swedish law, on servers in Sweden. Iceland only passed a law Assange favored. Never mind that Thiessen would also have to nuke New york, London & Germany, if we're gonna kill everyone with free speech.
If the damage is "immeasurable," how does he know it's "irreparable"? I guess that's just how it read when he pulled it out of his ass.
the beauty of this thing is, like all the other things, the thing is the story and not what the thing tells us.
so they'll go on the teevee and kvetch about "the leak" - never once speaking of it's contents. point. set. match.
i can think of a way to minimize the potential loss of life and future difficulties in assembling intelligence networks in Afghanistan...
It's an interesting border between what what Mr Aftergood knows and what he is willing to say/write in public.
And I confess I'm a bit of a coward. I KNOW that the US empire is an evil thing, and anything that causes it some inconvenience is to be lauded. But am I prepared to actually say that in front of my real world friends and social and business contacts?
Or will I hem and haw as did Mr AG? I think I'm a bit more aggressive than he, but nearly so as when writing semi-anonymously under the handle of "Lysander."
It's sad I admit. I wish I had more guts but, alas, I do not.
"the thing is the story and not what the thing tells us"
Very reminiscent of the AWOL Dubya story of eons past, where nobody ever bothered to deny, let alone acting surprised about, the contents of the ForgedDocument TM, but wasted all their keening on the kerning.
"But am I prepared to actually say that in front of my real world friends and social and business contacts?"
Speaking from personal experience, you'd be surprised, dude. I can think of redneck bikers, construction workers, school teachers, and religious conservatives who I know personally that have talked or corresponded with me about this stuff over the past decade or so and I haven't hid my own feelings on the matter one bit. Not all of them have agreed with me on every particular, but they agreed on more than you think, and they heard me out and in a few cases later came back to tell me they had reconsidered things in light of more information than they had before. And I am just a semi-drunk misanthropic asshole most of the time, so if you are anymore respectable than me then I am sure you won't be tossed on your ass.
In my experience, there is a good number of people who agree with the above assessment about Empire, but in their view, that is the way the world is, and if someone has to be top dog, it might as well be us. So they won't find the description off the mark, but will disagree with you on any suggestion that we ought to throttle back, lest the Chinese get ahead of us.
Back in the day when I was read on to a bunch of crap I still can't talk about even if I saw the shit on TV, the big issue wasn't the information so much as the ability we had to collect the information. That said, there isn't anything in the leaks to justify the amount of paranoia blasting around. Sorry, guys --most of the stuff is ancient history, and neither provides gist for the Jihadist propaganda mill nor operational information. What it does describe is how strange this particular war is. Armies do well as Armies. Taking line infantry and sticking them in Fort Apache, I mean, Forward Operations Base Spanky where they are not on the high ground is a good way to, err, what's the word...lose. Lose lives, lose control, lose the fucking war. As for the duty of Wikileaks to preserve our secrets, IOZ is exactly right. They are a stateless entity whose only allegiance is to the truth. Now, it's probably a leftist, internationalist, new world order kind of truth, but what the fuck? It would be more comfortable for the Top End in this country if the CIA could suborn them or something, but the fact is that nobody noticed. Until now. And because the data is unfavorable, the organs of the state and its fellow travelers have to respond. Poorly.
Justin, I'll try to grow a pair and be more open about my empire loathing. In regards to
"In my experience, there is a good number of people who agree with the above assessment about Empire, but in their view, that is the way the world is, and if someone has to be top dog, it might as well be us. So they won't find the description off the mark, but will disagree with you on any suggestion that we ought to throttle back, lest the Chinese get ahead of us."
I must admit on those occasions I actually had that debate, that was the ultimate fallback position. After the "America is a great force for good" argument is found lacking, they rush to the "everybody does it" defense.
Try telling your boss you're an anarchist and accuse them of having blood on their hands if they vote for anyone. Works really well!
Usefully, I find the "anarchy is to government as atheism is to religion" description to be flawed but serviceable.
@Justin:
I can't count the number of times that a discussion of anarchist politics has been ended by my interlocutor saying "Why should I give a fuck? Everyone else is out for themselves and so am I. It's dog-eat-dog and I'm not about to get eaten."
I think its the personal corollary of the views you've come across re: American Empire. The same selfish motivations leading people to argue that "This is shit, but at least the Chinese aren't in charge", also underly sentiments like "foreign oil is bad and the ice caps might be melting but as long I'm driving an Escalade get the fuck outta my way."
@Gridlock
Yeah, if you shoehorn in a rant about anarchism during your review or presentation, it probably won't go over well, neither would a rant on any off-topic subject.
@le sans colottes
All I can say is that I respect that viewpoint more than others based on normative arguments or fantasy, as I think it at least takes a realistic accounting of the world. You are right, there is really nowhere to go after that because you are both operating on different understandings of morality.
I would like to add one comment to that, I think those attitudes can sometimes be attributed to a reaction against feeling helpless, or powerless, by adopting the trappings, mannerisms and viewpoints of the powerful.
anarchist politics?
Vee belief in nossing, Lebowski! NOSSING!!
Justin - if you want a real challenge, try talking about how there is no scientific evidence for the existence of HIV, or how cutting edge cell biology is starting to suggest that viruses are endogenous trasposons rather than exogenous pathogens among 'polite, educated liberals'... That's a reall blast!
the potential loss of life and future difficulties in assembling new intelligence networks, because sources will lack confidence that the U.S. can keep the secrets it commits to keeping
If China invaded the US, those kind of sources would be designated traitors and there would be calls for their execution.
Or as we use to say on the east side of Toledo, "Snitches are a dying breed."
@Justin:
"a reaction against feeling helpless, or powerless, by adopting the trappings, mannerisms and viewpoints of the powerful."
Very true, but I wonder why in others the opposite reaction is elicited, i.e.: "abolish capitalism, smash the state".
@lucid: I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounds very interesting. I can't seem to find much on my own. links?
Happy Jack, the chinese ARE invading the US!
Red Dawn 2!!
Wolverines!
le sans culottes:
the virus/trasposon thing comes from work by Barabara McClintock & later, Lynn Margulis. I'll try to track down some links when I get home.
As for HIV, well, there has been a controversy on that since the publication of Gallo's ludicrous papers in Science in 1984. Not only did he directly steal 'retro-viral' particles from Montaignier, but he presented them as being isolated, when Montagnier has been on record for years that his lab didn't isolate anything. It has never been isolated by acceptable virological standards... and if you've ever looked into the controversy, has certainly never been shown to cause AIDS. Here of course there is nearly 30 years worth of literature, scientific, peer reviewed and otherwise to review on the subject, but if you're interested I can point you in the right direction. Probably the clearest papers on the non-isolation though are by The Perth Group.
Back to the matter at hand: has everyone been following Charli Carpenter's wagon-circling over at LGM?
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2010/08/wikileaks-and-war-crimes-2
"The documents “reveal” that ground troops are engaged in missions to kill specific terror suspects, which in some cases (though not all) are arguably war law violations. (I say arguably because while I would have argued that suspected militants should not be considered legitimate targets unless engaged in hostilities, the Obama Administration and some legal experts whom I respect disagree with me.) At any rate, this debate over “targeted killings” is an old one. How are the actions of Task Force 373 any different from those of drone pilots assasinating suspected militants (and their families) from the air?"
See, guys? Assassinating "suspected" "militants" is no worse than using Predator drones! Case closed.
Law of War violations, lol. The only kinds of people who get brought up on those kinds of charges are the kind that lost a war--and since the U.S. hasn't declared war since 1942...
"Aftergood, who is affiliated with the Federation of American Scientists, is basically a liberal good-government type..."
Ha! He fooled you too, IOZ!
Aftergood is a neocon partisan who tried to do a hatchet job on James Bamford's revelations about Israel's attack on the U.S.S. Liberty.
So if Thiessen is a "500-lb. child-raping, blood-addicted reptilian shapeshifter come to this earth to sup upon the tender marrow of little girls" (no disagreement there), then Aftergood is the nice man down the street who turned out to be a serial killer of little girls.
Amen to "Anonymous" right there before me. Let's also not forget that the FAS was the one hounding the shit out of poor Steve Hatfill as well.
If only the Tsar knew....
Just for the record, "nice liberal" and "good-government type" are our worst insults.
Re: Good Government-God types
Belaboring the obvious, because the basic principles are worth repeating:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
Capt'n Obvious
Latin plural of "apparatus" is "apparatus", since it's 4th Declension.
Just because you're an anarchist doesn't mean you can break the rules of language!! weeeee...
Lucid:
"Justin - if you want a real challenge, try talking about how there is no scientific evidence for the existence of HIV, or how cutting edge cell biology is starting to suggest that viruses are endogenous trasposons rather than exogenous pathogens among 'polite, educated liberals'... That's a reall blast!"
Yeah, it would be a challenge, because you might run into someone who actually knew about cell biology or epidemiology, and could tell you that you are full of shit.
No, they just don't understand the self-correcting mechanism of scienctific method and prefer to believe that scientific discovery stops when the media concludes there is a concensus. Educated liberal society reads the NYT for it's science, not the actual published papers - which is why educated liberal society really knows nothing about scientific discovery.
I prefer to look at data, methodolgy and conclusions myself. Funnily enough, most of the vindications of Margulis' contention that 'we are our viruses' come directly out of the 25 year failure of HIV research. It is undoing virology as it has been known for the last century. We're on the verge of a scientific revolution and educated liberals can't begin to fathom that.
Nullfidian,
Do I detect the piss and vinegar of the one who scored 98 on his CellBio II final?
Not until I was told
a) by a "leading figure" in the field that the bona fide treatment I have received does not exist,
and
b) by a leading quantitative methods figure that the concept I used (copied verbatim from a textbook) "does not exist"!
did I have an appreciation of the BS, guesswork, and arrogant semidoctism present in biomed research.
But, indeed, for HIV, elegant proofs of principle [i]a la[/i] Pasteur and Koch do not exist, and scientific debate has been severely affected by scientific community politicking and outside (real) political pressure.
Capt'n Obvious
So this is Dr. Freeman...
You have destroyed so much. What is it exactly that you've created? Can you name even one thing?
Captain Crunch and lucid must be part of the Rand Paul fanboy club.
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