Wednesday, September 01, 2010

And Melons for Sheer Delight

Via an email correspondent, and speaking of moral dandyism. WILL NO ONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?

Westerners certainly have no right to lecture others about the perversity of their sexual mores. The absurdity of our super-sexualized cult of youth sitting uneasily next to our vicious shaming of female and adolescent sexuality hovering uncomfortably over our insane denial that childhood sexuality even exists decently ought to prevent us from opening our goddamn mouths. You may disapprove of it and find it abhorrent, but the plain fact of the matter is that the sexual practices identified in this article are incredibly ancient; they may indeed represent the broad, civilized norm of our species since the advent of agriculture. They were certainly perfectly ordinary practices in the plurality of Mediterranean and Middle Eastern cultures in pre-Roman antiquity. Similar practices have been widely observed from Amazonia to the highlands of New Zealand to, of course, the tribal regions of Central Asia. I will tell you one thing that's for sure, the predate the advent of Islam in Pashtun culture, so you can put that cudgel right back into your pocket.

I mean, here you have a guy complaining about the supposed rape of thousands upon thousands of boys and young men and approvingly quoting the need to give it more of our "attention." What are we going to do, bomb it? You want to know what is worse for the boys of Afghanistan than a socio-sexual custom that's three thousand years old? How about invading their country, destroying their society, and continually bombarding their homes? I mean, listen, if I find out that the guy next door is beating his wife, and then I bust down the door and blow both of their heads off, the cops are gonna question my means, uh, my means of addressing an unfortunate situation.

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Maybe we can create an AXE Bomb to make them more manly!

Anonymous said...

"British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."

All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery."

Thank the gawdz there was a social scientist available to unravel this headscratcher. Wonder if those innocent brit soldiers have processed this information yet?

Andrea Shepard said...

I mean, listen, if I find out that the guy next door is beating his wife, and then I bust down the door and blow both of their heads off, the cops are gonna question my means, uh, my means of addressing an unfortunate situation.

You are speaking of the same US government that puts teenagers in prison for taking nude pictures of themselves. A brutally Procrustean approach to sexuality is pretty much axiomatic with them.

LA Confidential Pantload said...

They were pederasts, Dude?

IOZ said...

We should make them all go door-to-door.

David Chappell said...

It's all the fault of Alexander the Great. Everything was fine until he invaded in 330BCE.

Anonymous said...

So, you're saying the custom is only 2339 years old? IOZ, dammit! Accuracy counts! Get it right!

davidly said...

Reminds me of that stretch at the Grove, when we plied tradition to 'Oh my gosh!' Johnny until we set him free under the Gannon guise.

Sex Magik = Good times

Leonard said...

Westerners certainly have no right to lecture others about the perversity of their sexual mores.

Of course we do! We even enshrined it in our Bill of Rights in the pole position.

As for your discomfort with Western sexual practices... well, I'll grant you that, but what has that to do with anything? Oh I know, I know: Jesus said take the beam out of your eye, etc. You hypocrits! You shouldn't criticize anyone for anything whatsoever, until you are perfect -- and no one is perfect! But IOZ, dude: since when do you believe in Jesus? You don't. Since when do you refrain from criticism? It is to laugh! So where's this coming from?

I do agree with you about destroying villages to save them. Or boy rape toys. Let the Pashtuns clean up their rape culture on their own nickle.

Geoff said...

It's rainin' boys!

Anonymous said...

The British don't know anything about pederasty...good one.

Anonymous said...

Let's remember countries are never invaded to save the women and children from oppression, that's just one extra twig to throw on the fire to assuage the guilt of bloodlust/apathy in that tiny percentage that have guilt of their bloodlust/apathy. What I mean is the idea whether nation/culture building is possible and justified (I reject that too) is hardly relevant to the intentions and actions of empire.

KEn said...

Wasn't (isn't) a defining characteristic of the British navy the sexual exploitation of young boys?

But then these men were soldiers and I'm suer that kind of thing is missing from the Army.

Also:
Perrin

Christopher said...

I was prepared to say you were going too far, IOZ, but then I read the article you were responding to, and now I wonder if maybe you didn't go far enough.

It's kinda suspicious that "perverse interpretation of Islamic law" (Is there any other kind?) gets the blame, even though the only piece of religious teaching mentioned in the article comes from the Old Testament.

Also, really, the argument is that Afghan women aren't allowed to dress sexy, so of course the men are going to go after the only people who can dress sexy, young men.

I suspect the social science involved here may not be of the highest caliber.

Anonymous said...

So yeah, good point IOZ, except for the "don't forget that shit's ancient" bit. You could just as easily make the same argument about the ancient practice of armed invasion and slaughtering of women and children that represents the historical norm of our species, which, if disqualified from criticism on such basis, would necessitate the dissolution of this here fine blog.

And the Perrin video is just painful. Almost as painful as the sinking feeling one gets reading his depressing blog. He doesn't notice that nobody is laughing (or he doesn't care) because he's so eager to preach the righteousness of his cause.

Rustam said...

Woman are for children; boys are for pleasure.

The Promiscuous Reader said...

But for ecstasy ... a melon!

Anonymous said...

Anon 8:11, the reason for mentioning that this practice is ancient is to point out that it's not the fault of the Koran or a specific culture.

Mr.Fundamental said...

LOL

this is my favorite dead end of the internet. my favorite cul-de-sac. where are we headed, Monsieur? should I buckle up?

please don't bomb us.

Anonymous said...

Here's an article on the same topic. Note that this one includes how the Afghan police are trying to stop the practice. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the sfgate article left out that little bit.

Anonymous said...

Yeah but invading countries and bombing shit is a socio-sexual custom that's, like, a few thousand years old.

Anonymous said...

given that you think teh state is the root of all evil it seems awfully weird to me that its boundaries represent for you the limit beyond which nobody ought to impose their peculiar cultural mores.

rsdb said...

Yeah, that Perrin is not for the easily disturbed. He makes one's soul downright sad.

Enron said...

You got a date Wednesday baby!

Anonymous said...

so those Afghan men have a lot in common with Catholic priests around the world....

Susan

EJ said...

Definitely seems like a society that's ripe for a modern, Western style democracy - little nudge here, drone missile there.

Then again isn't our society supposedly based on Ancient Greek ideals? And we loved 300, in which the heroes were a bunch of dudes who were so into fucking teenage boys that even the Athenians made fun of them for it.

Anonymous said...

To the rescue comes the giant rape and torture machine known as the U.S. MILITARY!!!!!!!

Barbosa said...

Sometimes, context helps.

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2010/06/bomb-shelter-fun.html

Still, it's a depressing world. Maybe simple dick and jerk off jokes are best.

Dunc said...

A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure."

Funny, I've always heard that exact expression attributed to the Greeks... Co-incidence? Or is it one of those things like "the British / French / Portuguese / Dutch disease" (delete as appropriate)?

Montag said...

10:24 Anon: given that you think teh state is the root of all evil it seems awfully weird to me that its boundaries represent for you the limit beyond which nobody ought to impose their peculiar cultural mores.

that's not quite how i read the op. IOZ hasn't said the West shouldn't impose their peculiar cultural mores in Afghanistan because it is beyond US national boundaries, but because insane cultural hang-ups about sex make the West, uh, not particularly qualified to, uh, you know what i'm trying to say--

as to your point: imposing one's cultural mores on another is a form of evil, and, (always?) almost always, unjustifiable.

if not for the state, would there be a power great enough to impose their mores on an external population the size of, say, Southern Afghanistan?

Ethan said...

Thanks for this post, Ioz. The intensity of our collective freak-outs on this subject is insane.

Anonymous said...

@Montag

imposing one's cultural mores on another is a form of evil, and, (always?) almost always, unjustifiable.

Well this is the crux of the argument. The idea that imposing cultural mores on anyone else is evil is a sweeping assertion that doesn't hold up well in my opinion in the real world where everyhting is a question of trade-offs. Is it evil for Taliban to impose, by violence, cultural mores (imported and financed in no small part from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) on women who pursue education or have premarital sex? There is a very crude model of local culture under the surface here. Meanwhile the Taliban, incidentally, are not a state.

Montag said...

i still hold that imposing one's will on another by force is evil.

not clear on what you mean by everything in the real world being a question of trade-offs.

if some entity claiming authority, (acting like a state,) is going to impose it's will upon me, i'd rather take my chances against the forces of the Taliban than the US military.

Anonymous said...

@Sussanah

...and boyscout leaders, Brooklyn haredim, and SoBaptists. And child protective services employees.

Capt'n Obvious

Anonymous said...

Is *everything* relative?

Yes, the West has its own share of contradictions and fucked up sexual mores and practices (such as the ones you describe, i.e., sexualizing young females in particular)... but that is nothing compared to sexual slavery of young male children. Let's not pretend they are equivalent.

I agree with you though this really has nothing to do with Islam. And nor should it be used a pretext for the West's imperialistic ambitions in East-Asia.

Mr.Fundamental said...

apparently, nony@4:01, you are not a swimmer.