If, when I say that my comments section attracts some big fucking idiots, your first thought is not, "Yeah, that's true," but rather, "Does he mean me?" then the answer is yes. Caveat loquens: this is partly by design. Obviously the forum is unmoderated, and obviously I don't want to turn this into an exercise in recriminative victimhood à la our good friends at Shakeseville &c. But I think I'd be remiss if I didn't mention a little contretemps following a recent post. In that post, I said that Barack Obama was an asshole. I said so subsequent to talking about the torture of Bradley Manning. A commenter named Karen later said:
I knew who Obama was when he called a woman reporter "Sweetie" and when called upon it defended himself by saying he often calls women Sweetie.Now within the context, this is a perfectly reasonable statement. It does reveal Barack Obama to be an asshole, and I can't see the slightest evidence that this person was, beyond that, trying to make our dickhead president's offhandedly revealing comment commensurate with torture. Fortunately, such restraint eludes some folks; who rushed into the breach, preaching: how can you suggest that this is the same as torture, you fucking woman, you!? Well, hold onto your balls, ladies, and by ladies I mean gentlemen, because I am about to do exactly that.
It's true, of course, that offhanded misogyny and torture aren't equivalent as singular acts. If the universe were a ninth-grade physics textbook, in which difficult and inconvenient forces and interactions could simply be discarded, then the two couldn't be more different, but we don't live in a simplified text, and it turns out that the rope has weight and the pulley doesn't turn frictionlessly on its axle. (Thanks, btw, to the commenter I stole this from.) For instance, Barack Obama is not actually torturing Bradley Manning. It's doubtful he's specifically ordered it. The DoD is working him over; Obama is being assured that it's cool. Proper procedures followed. His offense in this sense is willful obliviousness; heartlessness; thoughtlessness. The sin isn't commission, but allowance; not causation but complicity. You know, but by the same logic, condescending to a grown woman, though in and of itself a rather dully and insignificantly offensive act, is participation in a history of violence and subjugation long predating the imperative of American state secrets, long predating the modern state. Women are an inferior class; they exist in a state of enforced subservience; they are lesser beings in the hierarchy, and the fact that Obama thoughtlessly and automatically treats them as such is indicative of the almost insurmountable totality of their position. The fact that a woman (presumably) can make mild note of this fact and be immediately attacked under the false claim that she proposed a false equivalence is indicative of exactly the same. Let me just put it to you straight, you'll pardon the expression: the torture of political prisoners, categorically, while awful, pales to insignificance next to the subjugation of women and girls, both historically and in the present day.
50 comments:
What're you, a fucking park ranger now?
Or when his minions force an indifferently average militarized pencil pusher to resign for violating the fourth wall of politics, and he's okay with it, cause his head yes-man, who happens to be a wo-man, tells him, that yes, it's true, his TPS reports didn't have a cover sheet on them.
I think you nailed it one post before. He's a total dick.
My work has been commended as being strongly vaginal.
I didn't see that kerfuffle in the comments, but thank you thank you thank you for writing this.
I also think it could be (and has been) convincingly argued that being forced to go through life being called "sweetie" (and otherwise condescended to, etc.) is a form of slow-motion, cumulative torture.
ALL IN IS ALL IN
I clapped.
You know what would be really vaginal (and by that I mean awesome)? Reading some more books by women who are not Atwood and posting about them here.
I <3 Ioz,
1. for providing route to I Blame the Patriarchy and 2. for informing your commentators regarding the presidential expression of dominance utterances and the capacity to read greater meaning into what those utterances imply, as we're all now seeing to fruition at great cost Manning and myriad others.
cheers.
I'm going to be posting a review of a Thaisa Frank novel quiite soon, actually.
Strong, great stuff.
You're welcome, IOZ. Great post, sweetie.
the torture of political prisoners, categorically, while awful, pales to insignificance next to the subjugation of women and girls, both historically and in the present day.
So nice to see you taking an interest in women other than Digby and what a dipshit she is and how beautifully Maria Callas sings.
But you're talking about collective suffering now, which makes Hillary Clinton a more subjugated being than Bradley Manning. It's the kind of irritating thing that characterizes a lot of feminist discourse. i'm glad you're a man so I can call it shit without being accused of misogyny.
As an aside, I too am grateful for that I Blame the Patriarchy link. I don't think there is a person on earth that can browbeat heterosexual women for giving blowjobs (and worse, claiming to like it!!!) with the panache of Twisty Faster. Seriously. She's hilarious.
Anon 1:18, you're chopping off limbs while splitting hairs. So, in your world, feminists can't use the word "women"? Is feminism then just a series of 3.6 billion little stories, minus perhaps .1 or .2 for people like Hillary?
But, but, but IOZ--! The existence of rich white WAGs! Vagina voters! Innate biological differences! Stripping as empowerment! Opening doors in the name of chivalry! Dudes who die while working on high-rises or wotever! Saudi Arabian feminism! Yoghurt commercials that make fun of men!
condescending to a grown woman... is participation in a history of violence...
the torture of political prisoners... pales to insignificance next to the subjugation of women... in the present day.
Ah yes, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. A word is a smear is hatred is oppression is a knife is a gun is murder most foul. Sticks and stones just break my bones. Only words can hurt me.
Seems to me you need get some ninth-grade concepts a bit clearer.
Beautiful, Leonard. It's grand to watch a believer in the existence of fixed inborn IQ try to club IOZ for mentioning sexism.
great to see this post. and there must be something about you posting about women and people deciding to check out that 'i blame the patriarchy' link over on the right there. Today was my first time pokin' around in the archives of blamerism as well.
It does kind of produce a warming effect on one's heart's cockles, or whatever, to see dudes of every stripe -- republicans, neocons, christian fundamentalists, anarchists, marxists, libertarians, liberals -- in perfect and harmonious agreement, even if it's only in agreement that patriarchy is a lie and Women are Shit 'cos... some white woman at some point had a job?
This post is stupid. I believe that giving women the privilege to vote was a major factor in the massive growth of government in our country. Mostly because at a group level they are dumber and more emotional. But I have never advocated the torture of anyone, man or woman. Recognizing the realities of the weaker sex and being a sociopath are two different things. You diminish the evil perpetuated on Manning with nonsense about "history of violence and subjugation" for 50.1% of the population. Let me guess, slavery is why it only appears blacks have a lower IQ too, right?
Dawson, sweetie, I don't mind IOZ mentioning sexism. You're right, of course, that I do believe that IQ exists and is highly heritable. (You can find hateful discussion of that hateful idea at this hate site.)
This, IOZ, is why I sometimes love you. Sometimes I think you're a putz, but sometimes I think you put things brilliantly, and this post is in the latter category.
Gucci, dollface, I've always recognized the realities of the weaker sex. Straight men show their weakness by their pathological need to dominate and brutalize. It's very sad, and they need a pat on the head and a nice cup of tea.
Anon at 1:18, give us a fucking break: Hillary Clinton isn't the only woman on the planet. The subjugation of women and girls as a class is worse than the torture of political prisoners. It's a generalization, which obviously doesn't apply in every individual case. If your problem with "feminist discourse" is that sometimes it uses generalities then I think your problem is actually just with thinking.
Anyway, yes: Barack Obama. What a dick.
It's a generalization, which obviously doesn't apply in every individual case.
And not just a generalization, but an assessment of the depth and prevalence of a problem. The torture of political prisoners is a smaller problem (both in number of victims and in societal impact) than the subjugation of women and girls.
You're right, Len, I misspoke. You don't mind IOZ mentioning sexism. You simply don't understand what he's saying, because it's outside one of you many mental walls.
It also doesn't make Leonard stupid to think IQ is heritable, it makes him stupid that he thinks it is linked to skin color.
I realize that for many Bradley Manning has earned a place next to Peltier on the rolls of the Civic Saints and Martyrs. Nonetheless, by his own lawyer's admission, the auspices of the so-called "torture" of Bradley Manning consists of Manning being handled in accordance with existing protocols governing high security prisoners who display suicidal ideation.
Sure, the defense lawyer says Manning was being "sarcastic". His inherent credibility as an officer of the court and his informed clinical assessment aside, max security facilities must treat threats of suicide the way banks and airports respond to colorable threats of robbery and terrorism. "Just kidding" doesn't cut it until much later, if at all.
Who's to say besides the shyster that Manning isn't suicidal anyway? Looking at life in Leavenworth at best for betraying his country might well give him pause where Value and Quality of Life are concerned. Were he able to fashion his prison garb into a successful noose, anti-government mod-progs would be squealing like stuck pigs.
Well, Inkberrow, for just one thing, Manning's captors consistently state that he is not on suicide watch. His treatment at Quantico may make him suicidal, but that is probably the idea. Coombs says that "the Brig's own mental health professionals dispute the validity of this concern. Since August of 2010, they have consistently determined that PFC Manning is not at risk of self-harm and have recommended that the POI watch be lifted." Of course, why believe him when the military says otherwise? The military never lies.
I read your blog when my boyfriend forwards me posts. He said I'd like this one. I did.
Thanks for sticking up for women. I think you blew the minds of half your commenters. But then, they were little minds to begin with.
Thanks, btw, to the commenter I stole this from.
Just glad to be a buddy helping out a buddy helping out his buddies. By the way, you were right, of course; I was being over-generous to economics in that thread. Physics in 400 BC had figured out the circumference of the earth and useful shit like that.
And I concur he's a dick. Question is, have any presidents not been? I think non-sociopaths get winnowed out early in the process. Off the top of my head the only contenders are Carter, Arthur, and Madison. Taft, maybe.
Definitely a high-quality post. One of my favorites.
I must read the comments here more often.
Fish, one assumes from your defense of Len's familiar tale that you've also considered all of its ramifications, including the wild-ass claim that human power structures have ever yet been highly correlated with inherited IQ differences, race or no race. IQ is an IQ test, as smart people have known for a couple decades at least.
As the fella who addressed the whiny weiner in the other post I figure I should address this one too. IOZ can spin a sentence like nobody's business but he's a whiny weiner orthodox thinker with absolutely worthless opinions. Sucka!
fish, IQ is correlated with skin color. I don't think anybody asserts IQ is "linked" to skin color, in any sense of "linkage" outside of correlation. Correlation and linkage are different things. Certainly, I do not.
Of course, I expect that sort of sloppy thinking when you leftists damn me as a racist. Your point is to hate and anathemize, not to understand. Just look at Dawson: he is so eager to condemn me that he writes nonsense like that last.
Manning, a gay man, is forced each day to get naked in front of his captors. It's hard not to believe that his sexuality is being used against him. This gloating spite has been endured, in many different ways, by women; and for not dissimilar reasons.
So, Lenny Baby, what nonsense did I write? You're merely mentioning heritable and largely unchangeable IQ why? Because you think it's uncorrelated with past or present social structures? If so, then what in hell are you claiming?
Of course, we all know you want to have your cake and eat it, too. Otherwise, why would you be wasting your Social Darwinian time on this site?
Review the thread, sweetie. I mentioned IQ only in response to your ad hominem at 2:27 PM. Then Fish jumped in on your side, trying to further impugn my credibility by incorrectly characterizing my heretical beliefs -- and I responded to that, too.
If you don't want me to mention the hatefacts about IQ and/or race, here's a hint: don't bring them up. I don't mention them unless they are relevant, which they are not in this particular thread. Or at least, they weren't until you resorted to ad hominem. They became relevant only because you attempted to make this about my beliefs.
The nonsense you wrote was this: human power structures have ever yet been highly correlated with inherited IQ differences, race or no race. "ever yet"?? Structures correlated with IQ differences? I seriously cannot unpack that. (Please don't try to explain -- whatever you are trying to say is OT. I know what your point is without being able to parse the words: leonard is bad racist. We all understand that.)
Leonard@2:09:
I don't believe he's condemning the words so much as that they just show the man doesn't give a shit about women, who aren't just being verbally subjugated. It gets quite physical, well beyond the glib remarks of a handsome man (if he'd only let his hair grow a little) in a nice suit.. Words mean little, but he backs them up.
No doubt, IOZ, about the impact of misogyny, but while I'm no obombologist, I think his "sweetie" could reasonably be considered an expression of his feelings towards his royal subjects rather than towards the other sex. Would he call a male questioner "buddy," "kid," or some other diminutive term? I would guess so.
I bet he doesn't call Hillary, any major female financial donor or female head of state "sweetie." Just like I don't think our overlords are any more racist than the peasants, and probably less so, even though they exploit racism more (creating and fostering racism among the peasants) and do far more damage to the assaulted races. It's not hate, it's just business. Hate is only needed for those who have a conscious.
"by those who have a conscious," I meant.
marcus, good point about racism and the overlords, except I wouldn't rule out Obama condescending to the powerful women you mentioned, insofar as they also fall under 'royal subjects' or perhaps royal satraps?
btw, I assume you meant "conscience", but the idea of Obama as a philosophical zombie does have some appeal.
i've often thought that feminists, especially the Blamers, who seem to have their fingers right on the pulse, and those of us who use anarchy as a model, not necessarily a goal, but as a means to understand/explain the role of power in society, are looking at the very same truths through different lenses.
as a white working class dude, i don't feel the sexism in the same way, except insofar as i don't hit all of the masculine benchmarks as strongly as i "should," but i do feel the strain of the economic mechanisms of power. (and i am not trying to say the oppression of wage servitude is as evil as the oppression of sexism, just that they are both products of the same system of powers, the same culture.)
also, perhaps echoing t.m., what marcus says about how the powerful engender racism, (i don't say 'exploit' cuz they invented that shit,) holds equally true for the oppression of women.
@6:33
Obama as philosophical zombie? girl, you be hitting my masculine benchmarks quite strongly.. (no offense)
But seriously, and to take up social darwinism just a tad, our current 'structures' select for (and over-developt in a certain class) manipulative behavior, dog-eat-dog sociopathy and 'political realism'. Philosophical zombiism, really.
Yeah, conscience, unless you're talking about Boris Yeltsin.
O-bomba may well be a misogynist, certainly isn't an anti-misogynist, but I don't think we can glean that from his "sweetie."
I understand what you mean -and not to dig to deeply into the psyche of this cretin - but I think the O-Bomb is still aware that he has to cling to the the social status he's attained, and has plenty of fear of his rich and powerful enablers/foils, just not of the serfs. He's not Nero, or even George II, appointed at birth by God to rule, he's an asslicker.
Montag, I think what is important to the overlords is not inter-race/gender oppression per se, but division amongst the serfs, which likely will involve oppression of one group of serfs over another, but if traditionally male jobs such as factory workers are lost, or if the gap in wage disparity between genders closes, etc, I doubt Obomba, or David Rockefeller et al are going to grieve.
well yeah.
racism and sexism are the issues they are not because they are natural human tendencies exploited by the powerful, but because the powerful engendered them in order to create divisions and resentments in the underclasses. get all that people power working against itself, so that it doesn't matter that there are more of us than there are of them.
"as a white working class dude, i don't feel the sexism in the same way"
LOL.
I'm with Montag at 8:12 am.
I'd say Obama's more a propertarian about women, less an overt despiser/dismisser/abuser. Remember his joke about using missiles to go after those guys who date his daughters?
girl, you be hitting my masculine benchmarks quite strongly..
Is that what the kids call it these days?
Montag @11:46, I'm not sure if that's true - sexism, at least, likely predates (other) pronounced power/class differences.
A bit of xenophobia is natural, which doesn't mean it's reasonable or imply racial superiority or that it can't be overcome. But if one of these "uncontacted peoples" of the Amazon runs across whitey one day, or any other outsider, they'll likely be scared. As well they should be, since our cold or flu viruses can decimate them, not to mention all of our destructive actions, which peoples of exploration normally bring.
In non-global societies this would always be an issue, the immune system, and still is to some degree, as you may have witnessed in your stomach if you've traveled. Clearly race is only one hint of that issue, not a danger in itself, and of course it's no reason to fear the people on the other side of the tracks. But I believe there is a natural instinct to fear those who look different than your family. And that is what gets exploited by the overlords to keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves.
My work has been commended as being strongly vaginal.
Would this make you a proponent of the Kegelian Dialectic?
So Monsieur regales us with tall tales of how he finds nuting, I say not one thing, good about Cristendom. But then he aligns himself with that famous (albeit per some, heretical) pupil of Gamalael, the moral imperative of gender fairness / equality:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Amen, Monsieur. Amen.
Capt'n Obvious (ftka The Christians)
Sad, but not unexpected to see so many feminist bigots on a left-leaning board.
Insulting (if "sweetie" can be called such) women is worse than torture says IOZ. But insulting men - all men collectively - is considered funny by feminist bigots.
That's equality, feminist style.
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