If you're anything like me, you probably spend a lot of your time fretting because right wingers have grown incredibly bold about bald-faced lying, and so far it seems there's literally nothing that can be done about it. We have extensive freedom of speech protections, which is a good thing of course, but leaves us with few options to stem the ever-growing tide of lies emanating from a right wing that knows that it can't make an honest argument. The mainstream media has basically abandoned its mission to correct lies with the truth. Some publications continue to fact check claims made by pundits, activists, and politicians, but it's just not enough to counter the endless stream of lies and misinformation coming from the right. That's why Fox News hates Media Matters so much---they have a machine-like approach to the lies, just debunking them in real time.I will propose to you that this is a form of derangement. I fret about my grandfather's health. I fret about who to invite for dinner. I fret about not calling old friends often enough. I think about politics; I write about society; I am even capable of getting angry about it; but it never worries me. I try to stick to human concerns. To spend one's hours consumed by anxiety that no one is rigorously stemming "the endless stream of lies and misinformation coming from the right"; to wonder with slight regret if our "extensive freedom of speech protections" might be the prime vector of pandemic dishonesty; to worry that the organs of state media are insufficiently corrective of state-issued lies; is to consciously choose to live in a state of self-imposed insanity. The state is a lie. Money is a lie. The law is a lie. Basically, as Ms. Marcotte would say, the entire perceptual frame into which these fretful concerns are riveted is an architecture of lies. The problem is not that the right-wing is lying and the media or the Democrats or whomever are failing in their mission from god; the problem is that there is no right-wing or mainstream media or Democrats; all of these taxonomic distinctions describe what are at best mere ephemera. The human society into which these ideas and categories are embedded is itself a colossal falsehood; that it is a widely-shared delusion makes it no less false. Arguing about the nature of left-vs-right-wing perfidy is like crafting a careful scientific explanation of the physics of dreams. Denise Levertov once wrote a poem called "Everything that Acts Is Actual." True. But also: everything that acts is, well, acting.
-Amanda Marcotte
Wednesday, August 03, 2011
What the imagination seizes as beauty must be truth
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 361 Newer› Newest»HAHAHAHA!!! Okay IOZ, we'll see if you maintain this attitude when the Glenn Becks and Sean Hannitys of this country are goose stepping in front of your house! FUCKING NAIVE! Democrats are definitely real, they have fucking conventions! They pay for them with real money! The Tea Party is real! They pay for their hats with real money! Keep on with your philosophical dismissal of real concerns. Just realize there are real consequences from your type of attitude. Luckily there's still Jane Hamsher.
I was actually just thinking how awesome it would be to quit work, move to Hatteras, and spend the rest of my life selling bait-n-tackle. I am going to call my store either Reel Solutions or Reel Consequences. I am not sure which.
you never sounded this Debordian. i think it suits you...
See, here you go again! Making with the jokes. I really hope you someday grow up just a little and use your talents for something worthwhile. I bet you could write for In These Times!
this is a form of derangement.
Progressivism is a harsh religion. Not only are you enjoined to do Good to the world itself and all of humanity, high and low, near and far. You must do it, in spite of what the objects of your loving attention actually want -- and unfortunately, they can talk. And not only that, you are constrained to manipulate them via democracy, which is akin to giving a blowjob via a paper straw. Most insultingly, you must love and cherish democracy, in spite of having to share it with the very cretins who are your enemies!
Suck it, Marcotte! Suck harder -- I don't feel a damn thing! Now, tell me again how much you love your fellow citizens!
I think you should name it "Live Nude Worms!" and have a very, very large blinking sign.
'The state is a lie. Money is a lie. The law is a lie.'
i have never agreed with three sentences more.
Fuck In These Times, if Ioz really applied himself, he could do something really important like design industrial lamps that use 5% of the energy of the latest models or something.
Honestly, day 2 and you are already cherry picking this low hanging fruit.
How about an ice cream shop on Nags Head? The Soft Serve of Low Expectations. The Chilling Effect. The Art of the Popsicle. I'M GIVING YOU PEARLS HERE.
bait-n-tackle
Is that what they call it in the gay bars these days?
at least its an ethos.
it's still exciting to be reading your stuff again
you're a master baiter for sure.
I think this is the first time I've deeply disagreed with you.
Also, you spelled "seizes" wrong.
I bet you could write for In These Times!
lol.
Like Saint-Just in drag
"The state is a lie. Money is a lie. The law is a lie."
This is a little silly. You're not really rejecting Ms. Marcotte's premises in any thoroughgoing way. You both agree that there's truth and then there's error; you merely disagree about where to draw the line between the two. She's worried about the fate of her nation, but you scoff at that. All the better to fret about your grandfather. Real human things. But, like, get this man: your grandfather's a lie. The category of "human" is a lie. Doesn't make 'em less real than money, though.
So here's a question: do social facts bear less 'factness' than other kinds of facts? Like our good man Foucault always said, the problem isn't the difference between truth and falsity, or appearance and reality, but an understanding of the various kinds and gradations of reality we're presented with.
Money's ephemeral and your grandfather is less so. But seeing as you're implying he's in less-than-perfect health (and I do wish him well, truly), he's not that much less ephemeral than money. In fact, there's a definite way in which we can say money, as the 6000-year-long tradition of having a social medium for exchanging value, is far more durable than any of us.
The category of the 'human' was never anything other than a way of qualifying what counts as human, always designed to exclude people who took the form of humans but didn't really have all the content (slaves, nonwhites, etc.).
I get it, you're returning cuz you've got a lot to say. Others are praising you for your new tone. But letting all this built-up energy out means you've dulled your critical sensibilities. Calm yourself, IOZ. Maybe you need another week away?
I love Marcotte's prose. Delving into a big chunk of it makes me feel like a forty-niner by a Californian river...
...incredibly bold about bald-faced lying...
Me, I yearn for the halcyon days where folk were more - more humble about bald-faced lying.
That's not what Foucault always said, or possibly ever said.
He's returning because he doesn't have as much to do now that the debt ceiling fauxshit is over. Don't you get it? Ioz is John Boner. Nothing is real, man. Not Ioz's grandpa, nor money, not even my left paw. Welcome to the land of make believe. I declare bankruptcy, independence and this land for my own.
in any thoroughgoing way.
that 4-syllable word is supposed to impress us, isn't it?
Come on, everyone knows VALIS sends messages from the true reality.
I'm only morally bankrupt; I'm gonna have to turn to selling my ass, uh, ets.
You're gonna have to serve somebody, Z/Boner. it might be the preacher or a construction worker taking bribes on the sly.
"That's not what Foucault always said, or possibly ever said."
Ah, the knock-down blow. Jesus, if I knew I was so wrong that I could be effectively defeated with one line, why do I even try to write at all? How could I have been so stupid? I really must be a pushover. Huh.
Anyway, I beg to differ. Go get Birth of Biopolitics down from your shelf and open it up to page 19, where he's giving us some metacommentary on governmentality:
"what I would like to show is not how an error--when I say that which does not exist becomes something, this does not mean showing how it was possible for an error to be constructed--or how an illusion could be born, but how a particular regime of truth, and therefore not an error, makes something that does not exist able to become something. it is not an illusion since it is precisely a set of practices, real practices, which established it and thus imperiously marks it out in reality."
You getting that? He's not policing the line between appearance and reality, he's talking about the conditions of something appearing as real in the first place. Earlier, on page 18, he contrasts his method to one that "legislates... in terms of true and false." That's what philosopher-kings do. That's what you were doing with Marcotte - she's 'deranged' but you recognise the harsh truth of reality. Appearance and reality, man. Proximity to the noumenon.
"that 4-syllable word is supposed to impress us, isn't it?"
No. No it wasn't.
"He's returning because he doesn't have as much to do now that the debt ceiling fauxshit is over. Don't you get it? Ioz is John Boner. Nothing is real, man. Not Ioz's grandpa, nor money, not even my left paw. Welcome to the land of make believe. I declare bankruptcy, independence and this land for my own."
Yeaaaaaah but the thing is he's shown in the past that he's actually quite a bit beyond this kind of vulgar skepticism. He's wallowing. I mean, I want to thank him for coming back and all, he's real entertaining, but he's not in top form, not yet.
Skepticism without vulgarity is merely belief.
I hate that Ioz is back. It must have taken the torture and murder of a Butchie to resurrect him. All bullshitting aside, that is not good.
"Skepticism without vulgarity is merely belief."
You're a lazy, lazy bastard, IOZ. Entertaining, though. The commenters who claim you should be publishing elsewhere are wrong - the blog is absolutely the perfect medium for you.
when I hear the phrase "money is a lie" or use the phrase "money is fake," I think of stuff like this:
The most pernicious power of interpretation belongs now to Capital itself, which claims to be free of all dualities, all otherness - in a terminal "obscene ecstasy" of united and flattened consciousness - a universalization of money in conceptual space, far removed and transcended above all mere filthy production, a kind of numisphere or heavenly weather of pure money - and in global debt, everything's debt to nothing, like a black hole on the event horizon, sucking up every last particle of light in an emptiness beyond history. According to the "natural law" of this total liberation of money, nothing - not even air, water, or dirt - is to be experienced directly by the autonomous self or group; everything must be mediated by money itself, which intends to stand between consciousness and production as an absolute filter, sifting out every last trace of authenticity and charging for it - taxing reality itself - as an ultimate power beyond even authority or law. Above all, Capital intends to acquire a monopoly on interpretation.
but of course ymmv.
"A horsewhip is worth a load of jism," as Mencken said.
ceci n'est pas une blawg post?
The dude was a lazy man, the laziest in Allegheny County . . .
No. No it wasn't.
so your thesaurus was lost? you always use the most puffed up words? what did I miss here?
Above all, Capital intends to acquire a monopoly on interpretation.
hor-hey, the ironies of glossy karl's legacy (the interpreter class) abound
The point is, you're faulting Marcotte for her empty moralising about truth and falsity not because such moralising is a dead end, but because she's mistaken about what's actually true. You're just as much a moralist as her. Cuz this kinda Platonic reasoning has only ever been a trough to wallow in: both of you are less interested in the truth as such, in its pure form, and more interested in damning or condemning others for being wrong about it.
It's not enough that she's simply wrong, she's entirely delusional. It's not enough to say that she's naive, she's actually insane. You protest to much. These denunciations, they're satisfying, aren't they? You don't exactly pity Marcotte here - but you do seem to really enjoy pointing out exactly how insane you think she is. It's a sad job but someone's gotta do it. We're lucky you're on the case.
The erroneous, the irrational, the insane, the morally faulty, the sinful - they're all just variations on the theme of evil. Different content, same form. I mean, good and evil, truth and falsity, virtue and sin - seeing as the line between these is so clear, so obvious, so shining and bright and powerful, how can we account for people who don't seem to recognize it? They must be, like, the most most evil or wrong or insane people ever. They're not that way for any good reason, they're that way by nature. There's no other explanation. Start the charivari, purge the impurity, go size up a sacrificial goat, etc., etc., etc.
You both agree that there's truth and then there's error; you merely disagree about where to draw the line between the two.
HaHA, to say the least. And to think you almost figured it out before going on your asinine moralism rant. Quit givin Team Anon a bad name, ya turd!
"so your thesaurus was lost? you always use the most puffed up words? what did I miss here?"
I'm really having a hard time understanding your objection here. Should I be writing explicitly to your taste? Is that what you want? Tell you what - give me a list of forbidden words and I'll promise to never, ever use them if I think you might end up reading what I write. I swear, I'll be really, really good from now on and never offend your readerly sensibilities again. In fact, how about this: I'll submit all my comments to you so you can edit them beforehand and make sure I'm using the right words.
"And to think you almost figured it out before going on your asinine moralism rant."
Figured what out? I don't know what you mean here. Show your work, kids. If you just write the answer I'll think you've been using a calculator. Your mark will suffer.
"Quit givin Team Anon a bad name, ya turd!"
Good point. I want to get this right. So I should be trying to issue one-line knock-down blows, then, should I?
Platonic trough-wallowing sounds pretty sexy to me. I mean, I'm not usually into water sports, but . . .
"Platonic trough-wallowing sounds pretty sexy to me. I mean, I'm not usually into water sports, but . . ."
Aw, you're just mad because you tried calling me out on Foucault and I schooled you in the most... let's say... thoroughgoing way possible.
I shouldn't fault you for calling what you assumed to be my bluff. It usually works around here, doesn't it? It's the safe call 99% of the time. You made the right choice.
I mean, you haven't read Foucault, so how could I possibly have read Foucault? That's your usual line of reasoning, and it works for you most of the time. It's like with Marcotte there - you're worried about your grandfather and keeping up with old friends, so why is she so worried about the state of public discourse? She must be fucking insane, that's why. Q.E.D.
Anyway, keep stringing me along with your one-liners. More often than not, I'll rise to the bait. It's enough to know you're reading.
Nony, you amuse. Get a nym.
5:24 PM
failed attempt at superior stance
Shhh, Karl. It's just policing the line between dreams and reality, helpin' us buddies out.
Hmmm, "conservative" versus "progressive" is just part of the enervating, parasitical illusion conjured by the Ownership Matrix? I can't say just yet if IOZ is more Neo or Morpheus, but Mr. Fun certainly is not Mr. Smith blitzed on Pabst Blue Ribbon and schwag. LaRana as Trinity?. (Glad Zion's open again, BTW).
Setting out to prove a bunch of loaded negatives might seem daunting, but maybe that's just the Matrix talking. And as for this "Money is a Lie", er, business, the last person I remember asserting that proposition so powerfully was the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, and he did pretty darned well for himself.
Mr. Fun is the white nutrient slurry that keeps my hemocrit high for maximal mental wattage.
"Nony, you amuse. Get a nym."
No deal. You shall know me by the tone of my writing.
"failed attempt at superior stance"
"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA I seen that movie too.
"Shhh, Karl. It's just policing the line between dreams and reality, helpin' us buddies out."
That is not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out that you're committing the same sin you're condemning, and that your argument doesn't even meet the minimal criterion of internal consistency. You might as well attribute your realisation that "money is a lie" to having swallowed the red pill. This is what you came out of retirement for? Of all the possible thoughts bubbling through your head, tempting you to break your silence, this is one of the ones that broke the surface? Amanda Marcotte is wrong to rue the torrent of misinformation spewing forth from the right-wing noise machine because, like, the state and money and the law are totally social constructs? That's the itch you had to scratch? You had to tell us that you've seen the fnords? Sheesh. You've done better.
Anyway, to your bastardized Mencken I respond with some Stoppard, on bad writing:
"when he gets into his stride, or rather his lurch, announcing every stale revelation of the newly enlightened, like stout Cortez coming upon the Pacific — war is profits, politicians are puppets, Parliament is a farce, justice is a fraud, property is theft… It’s all here: the Stock Exchange, the arms dealers, the press barons… You can’t fool Brodie — patriotism is propaganda, religion is a con trick, royalty is an anachronism… Pages and pages of it. It’s like being run over very slowly by a travelling freak show of favourite simpletons, the India rubber pedagogue, the midget intellectual, the human panacea."
"I can't say just yet if IOZ is more Neo or Morpheus, but Mr. Fun certainly is not Mr. Smith blitzed on Pabst Blue Ribbon and schwag."
Huh, beat me to the Matrix allusion. Ah well, it's apt.
IOZ is more like Parmenides, telling Socrates that man is the measure of all things. Of course he means one in particular - IOZ himself. "My grandpa's sick, I don't know who to invite to a dinner party, I'm losing touch with old friends." These are the proper objects of 'fretting.' They're the real stuff. The human stuff. Not like that "society" thing. Did you know that's all made up? Friendships and kinship ties and dinner parties, those are 'human,' and 'real.' They certainly seem that way to IOZ. And they're certainly not social things, like the state, money, and law, which are unreal. Get that? "Friendships" are in no way to be thought in terms of society. Anyone who says otherwise is, with no word of exaggeration, entirely insane.
It's less that we need a revaluation of all values and more that IOZ has unilaterally settled the question of value on its own terms and faulting the rest of the world for not having heard the news. I'm not decrying him for being a sophist, I'm saying this is bad sophistry. Paper-thin. Etc.
"Mr. Fun is the white nutrient slurry that keeps my hemocrit high for maximal mental wattage."
Yuh-huh. I been thinking about you in largely the same way, but with a more combative metaphor. It doesn't really work because, like, I cut your frigging arm off and you're treating it like a flesh wound, and it's not like there's actually a bridge you're trying to keep me from crossing, but I still like to think this way. I'm an internet tough guy at heart.
C'mon, play nice with Anonymous.
Anonymous 3.48 She's [Marcotte] worried about the fate of her nation, but you scoff at that.
I think the various misapprehensions in this sentence would provide a good starting place...
Also, So here's a question: do social facts bear less 'factness' than other kinds of facts?
What in the world does this have to do with what IOZ's talking about?
"I think the various misapprehensions in this sentence would provide a good starting place..."
It's what we in the rhetoric-and-arguing business call hyperbole.
"What in the world does this have to do with what IOZ's talking about?"
What, the social facts thing? The first thing I did was assume there was some way of saying that a declaration of money, the state, and the law are lies has some kind of meaning.
Like, beyond the implication that it's impossible to somehow say true things about any of these (which is untrue on its face - I mean, like, if you hear that the US exchange rate with the Yen is changing, can you say in any meaningful sense that the person telling you that is lying? not really ), and beyond the indefensible implied hierarchy of what it's proper to 'fret' about (family & friends, yes, public business, no), what does it mean to make those claims?
So I made the jump to assuming it amounted to a claim that the existence of these things can be demonstrated as a social fact (which IOZ implied textually - human society is a falsehood). I charitably rejected the implication that 'social' things are somehow defectively 'real' in comparison to 'human concerns,' which are the real real stuff (like, prove it, man), and went right to the question of what meaning social facts have. Like, are they bad just because they are social facts? Should we prefer other kinds of facts to those facts? Do they matter less because they're social facts? I think these are actually really interesting questions, but no one except you wants to talk about them. And you, I doubt your good faith. But that's my problem, not yours.
So I made the jump to assuming it amounted to a claim that the existence of these things can be demonstrated as a social fact (which IOZ implied textually - human society is a falsehood).
Not any, or even most, human society...The particular (kind of) human society "into which these ideas and categories are embedded"...There are more specific connections to be made between money, state, law (and media, the right wing, Democrats, pundits, etc) than "social fact."
"Not any, or even most, human society...The particular (kind of) human society 'into which these ideas and categories are embedded'...There are more specific connections to be made between money, state, law (and media, the right wing, Democrats, pundits, etc) than 'social fact.'"
Actually he equivocates on that. He begins by saying "I write about society... but it never worries me." Society is unqualified there. He then contrasts society to "human concerns." So there you go - society on one side, human concerns on the other.
But then in the line you quoted, he writes: "The human society into which these ideas and categories are embedded is itself a colossal falsehood." Now, you editorially added 'particular' and 'kind of,' and I don't know why, because they're not really implied in the text. But all of a sudden society is not entirely external to 'human concerns.' It is a human concern, but a bad kind of it, a false kind. Not worth fretting about.
So it's worth noting that the 'human concerns' that IOZ values are those that pertain directly to his 'social' and family life. This is not surprising. I suspect the same is true of most people. That's not the problem. The problem is he's faulting someone else for 'fretting' about things that IOZ himself does not value in the same way that he values his family and friends, and more than that, he's claiming that those things actually have no value. They're false. Untrue. Unreal. Illusion. So what do we do? Wait for samsara? Nirvana's around the corner? What?
In The Social Construction of What? Ian Hacking derided this kind of argument - like, so you've figured out something is a social construct. Is that it? Does that mean it's meaningless, all of a sudden? Does the mere claim or demonstration destroy the thing all on its own? This kind of argument is pure sniping, a rhetorical cudgel with which you can deride someone else's naivete without actually, like, demonstrating it.
Anyway, I'm an IOZ fan. Glad he's back. I like his writing. Or her writing, I dunno. The point is, IOZ is not usually this nakedly solipsitic. The seams are showing. It's bad rhetoric. Bad argument.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANYONE ELSE WORRY ABOUT ANY FAMILY BUT MY OWN.
"UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANYONE ELSE WORRY ABOUT ANY FAMILY BUT MY OWN."
See there you're not getting it. That's not the position I'm imputing to you. You're not saying your family is first amongst all families, you're saying the family is 'real' while the social is 'false.' But you're begging the question of whether they impinge on each other at all.
If you honestly think that "The human society into which these ideas and categories are embedded" means all of human society, then I pity you.
"If you honestly think that 'The human society into which these ideas and categories are embedded' means all of human society, then I pity you."
I don't honestly think that. Don't pity me. I didn't say anything that could possibly be construed in that way. I am not taking a position on the definition of society in any context: I am observing that IOZ equivocates on its definition and meaning.
But beyond that, yeah, I can see your point. It's a weak one. We could say that the claim implies the existence of other societies - 1) a society or societies that aren't human or 2) a type of kind of society (human or non-) that those ideas aren't embedded into. But it's a stretch, and I don't think the statement lends itself in an immediate way to that interpretation. Especially since IOZ uses 'society' in an entirely unqualified way at an earlier point in the argument.
I think he's mad.
Er, and also, I challenge you to come up with a comprehensive theory of society in which money, the state, and law don't each take, say, an overwhelmingly important role, whether they're 'false' or not.
"I think he's mad."
Why?
"The problem is he's faulting someone else for 'fretting' about things that IOZ himself does not value"
Hehe, no, he's faulting someone for worrying about the smell while drowning in a lake of shit. OF COURSE IT SMELLS, IT'S A LAKE OF SHIT YOU'RE DROWNING IN. But the smell aint what's gonna kill ya.
Lies aren't a bug of the system that can be agitated away, dude, they're the foundation on which the whole fucking thing rests.
No one should ever be congratulated for writing a blog, but welcome back all the same.
"Hehe, no, he's faulting someone for worrying about the smell while drowning in a lake of shit. OF COURSE IT SMELLS, IT'S A LAKE OF SHIT YOU'RE DROWNING IN. But the smell aint what's gonna kill ya. Lies aren't a bug of the system that can be agitated away, dude, they're the foundation on which the whole fucking thing rests."
Wow. You uh... you... you really have a point there, sir. I certainly take you very seriously and can see that you've read and understood my arguments entirely, and in four sentences you've not only addressed every one of my concerns comprehensively but also made such an effectively proleptical argument that I have no choice but to cede the ground to you, my better, my superior. I can tell why IOZ might like having people like you around as commentors - I'll bet you really keep him on his toes, don't you?
He's calmer than you are.
IOZ, I liked it when you called Amanda Marcotte a hack. At least I thought that's what you said when I read this earlier this afternoon. Now I come back and I don't know what the fuck is going on. Was this one of your movie reviews and I just missed the plot?
...and in four sentences you've not only addressed every one of my concerns comprehensively but also made such an effectively proleptical argument that I have no choice but to cede the ground to you,....
I couldn't quite place the noisome breeze earlier but now I'm sure: this thread smells like The Dalton School's most porcine alumnus from '99. pass the ranch dressing, Matty -- I just got me a bag of organic potk rinds and I'm ready to share!
"He's calmer than you are."
Seeing as his post included an entire sentence written in capital letters, that's saying something. But I see your point.
"I couldn't quite place the noisome breeze earlier but now I'm sure: this thread smells like The Dalton School's most porcine alumnus from '99. pass the ranch dressing, Matty -- I just got me a bag of organic potk rinds and I'm ready to share!"
I had to look up the Dalton School. I didn't go there.
Lol Karl, I didn't even catch that smell of teen cheez-it! Prolapsical is more like it . . .
Alright, I admit it: 'prolepsical' was going too far. I'll defend the legitimate use of 'thoroughgoing' until I die, though.
Mextremist nailed it. I read the op as Debordian.
3 The spectacle presents itself simultaneously as society itself, as a part of society, and as a means of unification. As a part of society, it is the focal point of all vision and all consciousness. But due to the very fact that this sector is separate, it is in reality the domain of delusion and false consciousness: the unification it achieves is nothing but an official language of universal separation.
The state, money, the law are spectacular in this sense. To fret over such things on their own terms, on spectacular terms IS the domain of delusion and false consciousness! In a way that, say, the sting of empathy one feels when looking in the eyes of their Grandma who's just realized she can no longer manipulate a fork and knife for herself-- is not.
Really appreciated George Joneses post as well.
Monsieur pens this and then a day later picks on how utterly delusional Marcotte is, using this same SENSE OF THE MEANING, and this anonymous is all "if you throw out the false dichotomy that is the left/right political 'spectrum' that serves to keep the masses at each others throats while the elites make off with the loot meaning, you've gotta throw out the rest of any and all human meaning heretofore." HER'S IS NOT A FALSE CONSCIOUSNESS. YOU CAN'T JUST THROW THE BABY OUT THE WATER HAS TO GO TOO! ISS NOT FAIR MS.MARCOTTE GAF UP HER TOE! on you, maybe. but maybe I'm just seeing a theme on this blog where there is none.
so you have no frame of reference, nonny. you're like a child who wanders in in the middle of a movie and wants to know--
That's impossible, man! How could I know what you feel?"
IOZ is more like Parmenides, telling Socrates that man is the measure of all things
I'm not even quite sue yet if I want to comment on this thread beyond my sex jest... but seriously? PROTAGORAS, bitch... Very different from PARMENIDES.
The Sophists were the original humanists... and the quote, properly translated is, 'Of that which is, that it is, humanity is the measure'.
While I love Parmendies, for many a different reason, please don't confuse him with Protagoras & Sophism.
Nony, I've never read Foucalt, and from your excerpt, I am glad. Its a lot of work to express something which seems really obvious.
Anyway, what I took away from IOZ is not that anything is more or less true in an objective sense, but that some of our constructs are more meaningful, or should be more meaningful, to us than others. My grandpa was a person, that much is true. That he is my grandpa, or that he thought of me as his grandson is false in the sense that its just an agreed upon illusion of relations between the two of us, but that illusion is one that gives meaning to us both. 'Society' or whatever is no different, it is just this shared set of delusions at scale. I don't think this is particularly insightful.
The question for each of us is to decide which of these illusions matter to us to maintain as though they are real, and to give up pretenses otherwise for the rest. For Marcotte, the Democrats and media and all that are meaningful illusions, so they are true. And within the insane shared sets of assumptions and lies of that system, and they do exist in so far as that Marcotte is not the only one buying into them, she has a point according to the insane logic of those illusions.
Demonstrating that more than one person is having the same vision does not prove its truth, it just goes to show that some number of people are invested in maintaining it as a medium of social exchange. I hate to put words or thoughts in the hosts head, but I think he gets this, I think he was completely aware of this when he wrote the post. I think what he is saying is, choose what illusions matter to you in a personal way. From where he sits as a hedonistic anarchist, Marcottes got it all twisted. Her nation is her grandpa, and society her dinner party.
Shared sets of false assumptions are what make human relationships from the interpersonal all the way up to the species possible. Yass, yass, not a big insight, and pointing that out in the context of this post does not make what the message is any more or less valid.
you know the serenity prayer - man up to change what you can; endure the inevitable; know the difference.
but what about the Prayer misattributed to St Francis? Lord, make me an instrument of your peace....
Me thinks someone needs their own blizzogg...
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