Modern Nazis are, socially speaking, scum. So when you claim to represent 99% of the population, where the 1% are people with the highest incomes -- you get the Nazis in your 99%.
Also, Jews are wildly "overrepresented" in the 1% -- if you assume that their representation there should be the same as their proportion of the population. Of course, that's a very stupid assumption. People do not get into the 1% randomly; most of them earn it, or they are chosen by others who earned it. (The Chosen, indeed.) It takes brains to get into the 1%.
But I do not expect the earnest progressives at Occupy Wall Street to know that American Jews are, in fact, one half to one standard deviation higher in IQ than the white average. Because if you knew that, you'd probably start to suspect that IQ is heritable, and then you'd probably start to suspect a bunch of other crimethink. Better to remain ignorant in the first place.
As a Jew, I resent the insinuation that I born into an IQ 1.5 standard deviations higher than the rest of the white population. I wasn't just handed intelligence in the top 1%. I EARNED IT.
Yes, but Leonard. When you consider that IQ tests are no objective measures of human intelligence, or adaptability. Intelligence and adaptability are things that can only be measured within a specific context. The specific context of IQ is of the current cultural context of Western European civilization, whose educational and structural dynamics dominate the institutions of our time in myths like capitalism, democracy, and the rest of the whole shebang. Intelligence within a specific context is cultural intelligence, and to say that culture is heritable makes sense as the values, beliefs and knowledge of a culture are passed down from generation to another. That Jews have been persectued and scapegoated for centuries as well as maintaining influence and power in spite of that persecution, they could be considered the smartest subculture to deal with the current cultural system we have to day that creates great and seemingly chaotically ordered injustices indiscrimanatently as well as great wealth for being able to excell at specific tasks. That does not mean that they are drivers of that cultural trend, but the most adaptable at present time and this manifests itself in ideological aptitutude tests like IQ, which are the sum of the system's educational institutions ability to train people to produce.
I think you could go all day at this, but if you think something like IQ is an actual, objective score indeterminate of context and heritable then you could spin around all day.
Ah, yes. The old "Find the craziest, sleaziest, or most reprehensible prick in any crowd, make him the official face of that crowd to dismiss any legitimate gripes the crowd might have" ploy. That never gets old.
Isolation, Christianity and ostracism have made Jews into Jews. For seventeen centuries, Jewishness was defined by Christian exclusion and persecution of the Christ-Killers, and the Jewish identity which predominated and which formed the basis of a sustainable, communicable culture was consequently familial, religious and sacramental. What made a Jew a Jew was the shared mythological rites that marked Jews as outsiders within the context of dominant feudal and martial Christianity, passed down among kinship groups and families. Our modern and post-modern notions of national, genetic and ethnic membership played no part in the formation of Jewishness. Jews were not a nation, anymore than the common subject of the post-Solomonic, Ezra-ic, Hasmonean/Maccabean and Levite hierarchies were religiously faithful monotheists (the Biblical obsession with polytheism says much about the problems of government faced by them as ruled the unruly Numbered).
For the last one hundred and fifty years, Jewishness has taken on more and more of a national character, lately influenced by the idea of ethnic belonging which has followed deeply the runnels and ruts cut by the rivers of cultural/genetic scientism everywhere it has penetrated the more colorful and diverse topographies of bald faith tradition. That these conclusions about race, nation and ethnicity arose in Germany, matured in German culture, and spread with the dissemination of German rationalism should be obvious, at the minimum. So much so, that we have arrived at the historical moment of a colonial Israel ripe with Germanic race laws and ideas about national ethnicity.
Still, the older familial and horizontal cultural and religious connections exist. Jews survived the terrible stupidity of the Christian world with a cultural synthesis all the more famous precisely because it worked so well as to be used against them as a sign of their perfidy for failing to cease to exist.
It should surprise no one, then, that Jews (as a culture and a people with shared traditions, and not as mere members of a bastard, late-born European nation) also maintain a sense of fealty and cross-border identity one to the other (which says nothing about individual traits or characteristics, such that American and European Jews show all the range of behaviors, politics and beliefs common to the larger culture).
It is this fealty to a sense of shared plight and the ability to persist as Jews that follows from it which informs the current historical placement of Jews within the larger American society in which one half of all of the world's remaining twelve or so million Jews exist.
The material expressions of this persistent and admirably durable subculture do have a very modern form. Precarity is at the heart of this older, shared culture. That the culture will survive the inevitable failure of the national Israeli project is probably probable enough to be certain.
This precarity, this inheritance of it as a cultural hallmark, does not explain Jews, but it should communicate something about how people who identify as such exist within the rather tattered American social fabric, and goes along way to explain the success of Jews in the United States, and the consequent social, economic, health and educational advantages which come with that relative success.
Well, as anti-semitic as any whitelibruldood for whitelibruldood movement can be. Which is: a lot. What more can one expect from a buncha tools who unironically parrot the same canned phrases Lou Dobbs found so amusing 5+ years ago ("War on the Middle Class," &c)?
Is Nutella kosher? Please make your partners aware of your status. We don't want any repeats of that deplorable incident in Israel where the guy scored under "false colors" ...
heh heh heh that jennifer rubin sure does have one long hooky nose. but seriously. anyone who DENIESTHERIGHTOFIREALTOEXISTIMGONNAFAINT is a stinky pants goyem antisemite!! who does not deserve to be heard so LA LA LA LA im not hearing you nazi oppressors
@LEONARRRRRD: "It takes brains to get into the 1%"
No, its established prima facsist all it requires is money. thats all lenny! now they might not let you into thier clubs, or invite you to thier parties but who cares! you WILL get full curbside police millitary,legislative and judicial service, and you will get to choose 100 papuers per month, for your bloodsucking needs.
Maybe one day Leaonard will realize that there are no such thing as race. There are phenotypes of melotonin, small facial characteristics and hair. And there is culture, or a common way of understanding, interacting with or controlling the world and everything in it. 'Race' is just one way of organizing people within a culture's values based on arbitrarily chosen physical differences. One can inherit those physical differences, but one does not inherit culture or any measure of an individual's relative adaptability to others with in it. I find it baffling that he can never get over this.
Genetic variation doesn't create phenotype groups, dude, it's just a cultural thing that West Africans dominate at sprinting - their moms make them run 100 yards every morning before they eat breakfast. And even if there were genetic differences, I'm sure all differences end at the neck and brain makeup has no bearing on behavior - it's our completely secular soul that determines who we are, not something so base as DNA.
And IQ tests are like totally subjective measurements within the umbrella of Western civilization - I bet you eggheads couldn't rape nearly as many women as get done in South Africa even if you tried - so who's got the low IQ now, huh?
there's a lot of jews that you can't tell from white people - they talk and act just like everybody else (a lot of them are actually actors), they get nose surgery, they change their name
there was a guy who decided to anglicize his name for professional reasons - he was moishe rosensteinmanberg - he changed his name to mark rosensteinmanberg
Why yes, it even carries into music. Blacks play jazz the best, then the Jews play second best, then Italians come in third, followed by whites in a distant fourth, um, I’m not sure where Mexicans and Asians figger into this but I’m working on it. Eskimos for sure can’t play jazz.
As far as cooking the French are the best followed by Italians but the Brits are way the worst cooks in the world, they just boil everything until it doesn’t have any taste.
Oh shit - I can't resist ... [+sarcasm] thanks a heap IOZ [-sarcasm]
It is perhaps worthwhile to note that regarding mate selection for their tuchters (that's "daughters" to you goyim), the richest PoppaJews and MommaJews tried to marry off said tuchters to the best scholars, not the best athletes, warriors, or horse-thieves, thereby breeding in the kind of verbal ability that plays well on SAT, ACT, GRE, and some IQ test analogies.
But now that Israel is righteously existing, we can expect the usual regreession to the mean.
Instead of the ubiquitous diners of the Greeks (who had a homeland for 2500 years and look what they became), we will have falaffel houses and some future John Belushi will be going;
Eerily, "greek homeland" is a historical misnomer. The Mycenae, Dorians, Achaeans and other Greeks didn't have a homeland, proper. Magna Graecia is a Roman idea. The Romans had a homelands. The Greeks had Greek throats to cut.
I see your point, but as someone who actually read Carl Darling Buck's "Introduction to the Study of the Greek Dialects" for recreation, you have to understand that I tend to view such matters through a philological lens.
Plus - if the Greeks didn't have a conception of "Greekness", no matter how conveniently invoked or revoked, from whence the well-known (folk?)- etymology of "barbaros" ?
Jack - while true of the Mycenaean era, I do think a 'Greek culture' coalesced in the Classical age with the Athenian empire & continued to develop with the Alexandrian empire.
No no - that's the wrong attitude. The reason I reside in the audience chez IOZ is not just because of the headliner - it's the way the house band riffs on whatever he or another follower lays down.
Last thing anyone should want to do is linearize this place ... shit, you'd wind up with another freakin' Salon, fer crissakes ...
Further, I would argue that the culture that coalesced from roughly 800-400 bce in Greece is extremely coherent - far more so than one finds in equivalent cultures in that period.
EL - no, I just focused on a lot classics for my MA and wrote my MA thesis on early Greek religion, secular humanism and direct democracy... And was working on a dissertation basically blaming everything bad in the universe on Plato before I quit academe.
"basically blaming everything bad in the universe on Plato before I quit academe"
You know - that's funny - first time I hit the Republic it was in the original for 2nd semester Greek so of course I got the usual take of the usual kind of prof.
And then as a work-study student in the library, I happened to shelve Beard's revisionist work on the actual politico-economic dispute between Plato and the Sophists (well before Izzy's) and you can imagine how it opened the eyes of a young Red Diaper baby ...
... although I have to say that reading the revisionists also saddened me ... I always hated the Sophists as the original BBD&O (will pitch anything for the right price), and only reluctantly came to see that Plato was merely Socrates' Leni Riefenstahl ...
... just as it pains me to admit that the roots of NC's "Cartesian Linguistics" can of course be found in Plato, not Aristotle ...
Justin finds it baffling that I can hold an opinion held by just about everyone. Not just the tea party rabble, either -- the biologists and forsenic anthropologists, not to mention its obvious "lying eyes" visibility in elite athletics. But it is strongly denied by cultural anthopologists! Quelle surprise!
Meanwhile, I find it perfectly explicable that he is baffled: his opinion is the overt opinion of the powers-that-be: the white progressive elite, safe in their clean and leafy suburbs with "good schools". Is this belief be fashionable? I think it is!
Could a false idea somehow be widely professed in spite of opposing scientific consensus? Simply if the reigning elite teaches it in its monopoly school system, all higher education, and all other public discourse of any note? No, of course not! Here's your blue pill -- believe whatever you want to believe.
Interesting - are you talking about Charles Beard? I'd like to check it out.
My primary locus of study was epistemology, it's relationship to ontology and identity and resultant socio-politico orders envisioned thereof - so I didn't wander as much into the economic aspects of their disputes [interestingly enough, this has always been my approach to Marx as well].
Anyhow, I've always avoided Chomsky's linguistics for exactly that reason.
Perhaps we're whistling past each other. "Greekness" is one thing, and I've no argument with the claim. "Homeland" is quite another. The Eleni weren't marching around worrying their version of the vaterland or the rodina.
The Alexandrian pan-hellenism was a reaction to Alexander's refusal to be a good greek, no? That is was his adoption of so many Persian forms which caused contemporary opponents and later sophs to assert what never was as a reaction to what did not yet exist.
Anyway - the 2500 years claim rings false. By the time the Greeks were debased enough to think of the peninsula as a home, it was being run by the same Romans who'd already lobbed off a number of their more far flung parts.
So my contention, thin and unconcerned as it is, is that we see the Helenes as the Romans did.
JC@5:31 - fair 'nuff ... perhaps it's not correct to equate geography and ethnography in all contexts ... I was merely trying to contrast the situation of the Jews throughout the Diaspora with that of a bunch of people who have spoken the same language and lived in the same general vicinity for a long time ...
lucid - I've been vainly searching for a ref to the "Beard" volume and can't find it ... so I'm forced to conclude the book I'm thinking of wasn't by Beard (I know it wasn't Popper's "Open Society") ... in any event ... it was by someone claiming that Plato was a member of an elite reacting in dismay to the rise of a newer class whose interests were championed by the Sophists ... kind of like the landed gentry reacting against the merchants in England ... I apologize for the red herring ...
"If you see IOZ on the road, kill him" (for starting this damn thread ... I knew I shouldn't have entered it ...)
Anyway - I think one can deny the right of Israel to exist and simultaneously not deny the truth of a "Diaspora" without having to suffer too much cognitive dissonance ... this (matrilineal) Jew certainly can ...
... besides, what are we to make of young Stephen if Joyce was sold a bill of goods ... ?
to demize@6:04 ... before Gilad Atzmon there was Chomsky and "l'affaire Faurisson" ... more than likely the affair that cost him the Nobel Peace Prize ...
Jack - I can see that standpoint & perhaps it dovetails nicely with your earlier statement:
That these conclusions about race, nation and ethnicity arose in Germany, matured in German culture, and spread with the dissemination of German rationalism should be obvious, at the minimum. So much so, that we have arrived at the historical moment of a colonial Israel ripe with Germanic race laws and ideas about national ethnicity.
I'm not entirely sure that one needs the brush of 19th century German nationalism [or the many conceits it shares with Rome] to polish a homeland. Hell, if anything, modern nationalism itself comes directly from Republic book VII. That the manner in which the Greeks might have understood 'Greece' differs substantially from the manner in which modern Jews understand 'Israel' precludes neither a coherent culture nor notions of 'Greece', or 'Athens', or a loose 'pan-homerism'.
Speaking of the situation of the Jews throughout the Diaspora, I just recently learned that there are different Sephardic and Ashkenazic definitions of kosher for Passover.
Speaking of ritual food, I'm reminded of a difference in doctrine between the Church of Rome and the Church of England - transubstantiation compared to consubstantiation.
And it was Joyce who wrote "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."
Was raised Catholic by assimilants to a Northeastern Little Italy. We share a storyline, perhaps.
I just think Sand is convincing in his argument that there was no Roman eviction of Jews, en masse, after Titus son of Vespasian or Bar Kochba. The Diaspora is mythos, if not myth. What made Jews international, perhaps before there were even nations proper, was conversion.
And before him Spinoza, and before him Jesus of Nazareth, who I'm also sure would have lost the prize to Obama or Kissenger. But I don't trust Chomsky's analysis of Palestine,Israel. I'm not sure if I can fully enunciate that mistrust.
EL - no worries. That is a very common modern strain. Even more mainstream classicists like Vlastos clearly delineate the aristocratic stance within Plato, though he frames it as Plato's reaction to the execution of Socrates. I actually think it comes straight from Socrates myself.
"What made Jews international, perhaps before there were even nations proper, was conversion."
To "conversion", I would add "virtual assimilation" ...
But that's a quiblle, in general I think we agree on more than that on which we disagree ... for example, I consider Ezra to be the most important book of the "Bible" because it tells of the time when Jews, for whatever reason, apparently decided not to assimilate into non-existence (as they actually should have, and done the world a favor) but to stage a "return" ...
I have often wondered about the actual facts behind Ezra .. cui bono?
Would that we now could be discussing "Judaism" as we would discuss Zoroastrians or the Arians ...
Jack - further there is no archaeological evidence of an Egyptian enslavement, so the entire tale of a promised land is most likely an attempt to unite disparate roaming tribes into a unit for the mutual defense of property...
demize - I think I know whereof your distrust of NC arises ... my grandmother left a Hasidic home in Poland, worked in Marseilles for passage to Palestine, and wound up working on Ben Gurion's original kibbutz before she left for the US pre-WWI because word was out that the Turks were gonna side with Germans and it was gonna be "pogroms all over again" ... because that history is part of my roots, I have a soft spot for the notion of "Labor Zionism" until I remember what the second defining word of that notion is ... I think NC suffers from something similar ... remember that his political (as well as theoretical) mentor was Zellig Harris ...
EL. Yes I think that's exactly it. That and a level of obsfuscation when dealing with issues such as BDS. leave me to conclude that there is a tribalism in operation. I mean he is far too brilliant and careful not to notice these inconsistentcies he makes. From what I understand he was a Kibbutznik for a time.
Emergency Committee for Israel? i instinctively trust any organization run by the likes of neo-Cromwellite Gary Bauer and legacy asshole Bill Kristol (aka "Dan Quayle's Brain," "Midge Decter's Penis," ad nauseam ..).
And yet genuine anti-semitism still bubbles up here and there, even in the most unlikely of places.
In the first comment of this thread, for instance, TGGP quotes from "Lucifer's Lexicon" by LA Rollins (1987). Nor is this the first time he's done this.
Here are some of the book's other hilarious entries. For some reason TGGP chose not to quote these:
Holocaust, the, n. A smoke screen obscuring the atrocities of the Allies and the Israelis. The insurance fraud of the century. A cheap cinematic trick; a filmflam; the Hollywoodcaust; a soap opera.
Zionist Propaganda, n. Hebrew-National Baloney.
Rollins also used to work at the Institute for Historical Review, that notorious gang of holocaust-deniers.
"But I don't trust Chomsky's analysis of Palestine,Israel. I'm not sure if I can fully enunciate that mistrust."
Chomsky, was self-admittedly a Zionist, and more circumspectly remains a Zionist, if you ask me. A Zionist with a conscience, but a Zionist. This is why he continues to emphasize the "two-state solution" when everyone can see that it's a dead letter, even if most pertinent governments largely fail to recognize it.
I'm dissapointed in Leonard for not yet linking to Cochran & Harpending's Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence. In their view, Tay-Sachs and some related disorders are linked to "overclocking" that developed during the (relatively) recent medieval period.
There's not just other definitions in Lucifer's Lexicon, in the republished edition of "The Myth of Natural Rights and Other Essays" (which contains LL, as well as a preface for the titular essay written by yours' truly) there are three essays on holocaust denial. The first is on whether it's a legitimate subject at all, the second is a criticism of various deniers, and the third is criticism of Michael Shermer's criticism of deniers. Rollins proclaims that after all his study on the issue he is an agnostic. I don't know if I believe him, but mostly I don't care. An occasional shared reader of my blog and IOZ' gives it a negative review here, where Rollins shows up in the comments to defend his work and mistype things.
Oh, you can talk plenty about a criminal segment of the Italian population, the Italian mafia, and no one says anything ... and they shouldn't becoz by merely acknowledging the mafia exists does not vilify the entire Italian population ... but you can't ever, ever talk about the segment of the Jewish population that plays a VERY LARGE role in our criminal fucking banking system without being accused by many Jews of hating each and every Jew in the world.
The people that most zealously accuse others of being prejudice towards them are often the biggest bigots.
The person signing as Z has said something I agree with so much that I want to repeat it (slightly edited).
Oh, you can talk plenty about a criminal segment of the Italian population, the Italian mafia, and no one says anything ... and they shouldn't, because merely acknowledging the mafia exists does not vilify the entire Italian population ... but you can't ever, ever talk about the segment of the Jewish population that plays a VERY LARGE role in our criminal fucking banking system without being accused by many Jews of hating each and every Jew in the world.
The people that most zealously accuse others of being prejudiced towards them are often the biggest bigots.
Tribalism is the highway to immorality.
Z
2:23 AM
When I was learning about the different Sephardic and Ashkenazic definitions of kosher for passover, I also read that the differing sociohistorical experiences of the Sephardic and Ashkenazic communities gave rise to differing attitudes towards the non-Jewish communities they lived alongside - the Sephardim regarded their neighbors as equals, whereas the Ashkenazim saw them as inferior. See my quote from Joyce, supra.
What are you talking about? There's no such thing as the mafia, only legitimate Italian businessmen being harassed and scapegoated by the authorities and media.
All this is lovely empirical evidence supporting the themes of Pat Buchanan's new book. The Balkanizing of the American Mind? Me, I'm nostalgic. I just wish the CNT and the UGT had stopped fighting long enough to see that the crypto-fascist POUM was the real threat (aside from the REAL threat).
"The Jewish interpretation of the world followed upon the Christian, just as the Christian one followed Roman and Greek culture. So now Jewish analyses, images, definitions of art, science, sociology, literature, politics, the information media, dominate. Marx and Freud are the pillars that mark the road from East to West. Neither are imaginable without Jewishness. Their systems are defined by it. The axis USA-Israel guarantees the parameters. That is the way people think now, the way they feel, act and disseminate information. We live in the Jewish epoch of European cultural history. And we can only wait, at the pinnacle of our technological power, for our last judgment at the edge of the apocalypse…. So that's the way it looks, for all of us, suffocating in unprecedented technological prosperity, without spirit, without meaning... Those who want to have good careers go along with Jews and leftists and the race of superior men has been seduced, the land of poets and thinkers has become the fat booty of corruption, of business, of lazy comfort."
I grow weary of all this intellectual, cultural bullshit. It puts me in mind of Twisty Faster when she says:
Culture. Culture culture culture. I am sick and tired of culture. I am sick and tired of the chumpass motherfuckers who are trying to preserve culture because they think it’s sacred or something and they worship it. Culture’s not sacred. It’s guk growing in a petrie dish. A set of behaviors upon the successful assimilation of which a given individual is ruthlessly judged by her prejudiced and parochial peers.
Why would anybody want to get involved with that? Keep your culture offa me, freak!
102 comments:
From Lucifer's Lexicon by L. A. Rollins:
anti-semite: noun
1. One who hates Jews.
2. One who is hated by Jews.
Thou refuseth'd our overtures, now verily shall we besmirch thee.
They were Nazis, Dude?
They were threatening occupation. Are we gonna split hairs?
Modern Nazis are, socially speaking, scum. So when you claim to represent 99% of the population, where the 1% are people with the highest incomes -- you get the Nazis in your 99%.
Also, Jews are wildly "overrepresented" in the 1% -- if you assume that their representation there should be the same as their proportion of the population. Of course, that's a very stupid assumption. People do not get into the 1% randomly; most of them earn it, or they are chosen by others who earned it. (The Chosen, indeed.) It takes brains to get into the 1%.
But I do not expect the earnest progressives at Occupy Wall Street to know that American Jews are, in fact, one half to one standard deviation higher in IQ than the white average. Because if you knew that, you'd probably start to suspect that IQ is heritable, and then you'd probably start to suspect a bunch of other crimethink. Better to remain ignorant in the first place.
As a Jew, I resent the insinuation that I born into an IQ 1.5 standard deviations higher than the rest of the white population. I wasn't just handed intelligence in the top 1%. I EARNED IT.
Advice. Get a job. et cetera.
Eat the smart.
Yes, but Leonard. When you consider that IQ tests are no objective measures of human intelligence, or adaptability. Intelligence and adaptability are things that can only be measured within a specific context. The specific context of IQ is of the current cultural context of Western European civilization, whose educational and structural dynamics dominate the institutions of our time in myths like capitalism, democracy, and the rest of the whole shebang. Intelligence within a specific context is cultural intelligence, and to say that culture is heritable makes sense as the values, beliefs and knowledge of a culture are passed down from generation to another. That Jews have been persectued and scapegoated for centuries as well as maintaining influence and power in spite of that persecution, they could be considered the smartest subculture to deal with the current cultural system we have to day that creates great and seemingly chaotically ordered injustices indiscrimanatently as well as great wealth for being able to excell at specific tasks. That does not mean that they are drivers of that cultural trend, but the most adaptable at present time and this manifests itself in ideological aptitutude tests like IQ, which are the sum of the system's educational institutions ability to train people to produce.
I think you could go all day at this, but if you think something like IQ is an actual, objective score indeterminate of context and heritable then you could spin around all day.
i masturbated my way to a higher IQ
...prominent liberal leaders who have shown sympathy for their cause have failed to speak out...
A MILLION BUCKS FROM FUCKING NEEDY LITTLE URBAN ACHIEVERS. YOU ARE SCUM, MAN.
Ah, yes. The old "Find the craziest, sleaziest, or most reprehensible prick in any crowd, make him the official face of that crowd to dismiss any legitimate gripes the crowd might have" ploy. That never gets old.
Regrettably, it's true, standard deviations have fallen.
"It takes brains to get into the 1%. "
George Bush, Paris Hilton, and Sarah Palin pulled themselves up by their own boobstraps.
Leonard,
Isolation, Christianity and ostracism have made Jews into Jews. For seventeen centuries, Jewishness was defined by Christian exclusion and persecution of the Christ-Killers, and the Jewish identity which predominated and which formed the basis of a sustainable, communicable culture was consequently familial, religious and sacramental. What made a Jew a Jew was the shared mythological rites that marked Jews as outsiders within the context of dominant feudal and martial Christianity, passed down among kinship groups and families. Our modern and post-modern notions of national, genetic and ethnic membership played no part in the formation of Jewishness. Jews were not a nation, anymore than the common subject of the post-Solomonic, Ezra-ic, Hasmonean/Maccabean and Levite hierarchies were religiously faithful monotheists (the Biblical obsession with polytheism says much about the problems of government faced by them as ruled the unruly Numbered).
For the last one hundred and fifty years, Jewishness has taken on more and more of a national character, lately influenced by the idea of ethnic belonging which has followed deeply the runnels and ruts cut by the rivers of cultural/genetic scientism everywhere it has penetrated the more colorful and diverse topographies of bald faith tradition. That these conclusions about race, nation and ethnicity arose in Germany, matured in German culture, and spread with the dissemination of German rationalism should be obvious, at the minimum. So much so, that we have arrived at the historical moment of a colonial Israel ripe with Germanic race laws and ideas about national ethnicity.
Still, the older familial and horizontal cultural and religious connections exist. Jews survived the terrible stupidity of the Christian world with a cultural synthesis all the more famous precisely because it worked so well as to be used against them as a sign of their perfidy for failing to cease to exist.
It should surprise no one, then, that Jews (as a culture and a people with shared traditions, and not as mere members of a bastard, late-born European nation) also maintain a sense of fealty and cross-border identity one to the other (which says nothing about individual traits or characteristics, such that American and European Jews show all the range of behaviors, politics and beliefs common to the larger culture).
It is this fealty to a sense of shared plight and the ability to persist as Jews that follows from it which informs the current historical placement of Jews within the larger American society in which one half of all of the world's remaining twelve or so million Jews exist.
The material expressions of this persistent and admirably durable subculture do have a very modern form. Precarity is at the heart of this older, shared culture. That the culture will survive the inevitable failure of the national Israeli project is probably probable enough to be certain.
This precarity, this inheritance of it as a cultural hallmark, does not explain Jews, but it should communicate something about how people who identify as such exist within the rather tattered American social fabric, and goes along way to explain the success of Jews in the United States, and the consequent social, economic, health and educational advantages which come with that relative success.
Well, as anti-semitic as any whitelibruldood for whitelibruldood movement can be. Which is: a lot. What more can one expect from a buncha tools who unironically parrot the same canned phrases Lou Dobbs found so amusing 5+ years ago ("War on the Middle Class," &c)?
"Occupy Wall Street is anti-Semitic is the new Tea Party is racist!"
Hey Gertrude - you've just given me a great idea for a new bumper sticker:
"We want the Stein-Stein-Stein Plan!"
On a more serious note, did you have to make the natives restless with that post?
Did you really have to ?
Nutella -
Is Nutella kosher? Please make your partners aware of your status. We don't want any repeats of that deplorable incident in Israel where the guy scored under "false colors" ...
Krusty The Klown died for our sins, drowning in a pool of Mel Gibson's vomit. Ipso Facto Jew E. Dee.
Jesus fuck. Leonard is still here, yanking his crank over bullshit Charles Murray leftovers?
Hey let's stir a different hornet's nest IOZ?
Elizabeth Warren, terror fighter!
Yes Leonard, but JOOS DESIGN THE IQ TESTS! You start off so well and then devolve into eugenics.
Just remind me: how long has the war on the working classes being going on?
Nony 2:15 - prolly about 50,000 years.
Shomer fucking Shabbos.
Note to IOZ @ 2:22
http://www.william-shakespeare.info/william-shakespeare-sonnet-94.htm
This is all part of your sick Cynthia thing.
To GJ at 2:28:
Good memory ...
http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2010/08/its-all-part-of-your-sick-cynthia-thing.html
heh heh heh that jennifer rubin sure does have one long hooky nose. but seriously. anyone who DENIESTHERIGHTOFIREALTOEXISTIMGONNAFAINT is a stinky pants goyem antisemite!! who does not deserve to be heard so LA LA LA LA im not hearing you nazi oppressors
@LEONARRRRRD: "It takes brains to get into the 1%"
No, its established prima facsist
all it requires is money. thats all lenny! now they might not let you into thier clubs, or invite you to thier parties but who cares! you WILL get full curbside police millitary,legislative and judicial service, and you will get to choose 100 papuers per month, for your bloodsucking needs.
Maybe one day Leaonard will realize that there are no such thing as race. There are phenotypes of melotonin, small facial characteristics and hair. And there is culture, or a common way of understanding, interacting with or controlling the world and everything in it. 'Race' is just one way of organizing people within a culture's values based on arbitrarily chosen physical differences. One can inherit those physical differences, but one does not inherit culture or any measure of an individual's relative adaptability to others with in it. I find it baffling that he can never get over this.
Tune in next week for:
.
PAPISTS!
.
Inquisition ... Jesuits... VicaribusDei! ... Mel Gibson!!!
Personally, I think it takes more brains to stay the fuck out of the top 1%.
Genetic variation doesn't create phenotype groups, dude, it's just a cultural thing that West Africans dominate at sprinting - their moms make them run 100 yards every morning before they eat breakfast. And even if there were genetic differences, I'm sure all differences end at the neck and brain makeup has no bearing on behavior - it's our completely secular soul that determines who we are, not something so base as DNA.
And IQ tests are like totally subjective measurements within the umbrella of Western civilization - I bet you eggheads couldn't rape nearly as many women as get done in South Africa even if you tried - so who's got the low IQ now, huh?
there's a lot of jews that you can't tell from white people - they talk and act just like everybody else (a lot of them are actually actors), they get nose surgery, they change their name
there was a guy who decided to anglicize his name for professional reasons - he was moishe rosensteinmanberg - he changed his name to mark rosensteinmanberg
Why yes, it even carries into music. Blacks play jazz the best, then the Jews play second best, then Italians come in third, followed by whites in a distant fourth, um, I’m not sure where Mexicans and Asians figger into this but I’m working on it. Eskimos for sure can’t play jazz.
As far as cooking the French are the best followed by Italians but the Brits are way the worst cooks in the world, they just boil everything until it doesn’t have any taste.
Oh shit - I can't resist ... [+sarcasm] thanks a heap IOZ [-sarcasm]
It is perhaps worthwhile to note that regarding mate selection for their tuchters (that's "daughters" to you goyim), the richest PoppaJews and MommaJews tried to marry off said tuchters to the best scholars, not the best athletes, warriors, or horse-thieves, thereby breeding in the kind of verbal ability that plays well on SAT, ACT, GRE, and some IQ test analogies.
But now that Israel is righteously existing, we can expect the usual regreession to the mean.
Instead of the ubiquitous diners of the Greeks (who had a homeland for 2500 years and look what they became), we will have falaffel houses and some future John Belushi will be going;
"tahini, no tahini, tahini".
but the Brits are way the worst cooks in the world, they just boil everything until it doesn’t have any taste.
It's because the DNA of the British race creates inferior tastebuds, so they don't even know they're ruining their food.
That and copious amounts of stout.
This post has been removed by an anti-semite.
You're not even Jewish.
"instead of the ubiquitous diners of the Greeks (who had a homeland for 2500 years and look what they became)"
LOL, because Athens was the capital of Mycenaean Greece
to Enron@4:29 ...
???
You'd better clarify, or I'll post my two quatrains on the Ventris vs Beattie feud ...
Eerily, "greek homeland" is a historical misnomer. The Mycenae, Dorians, Achaeans and other Greeks didn't have a homeland, proper. Magna Graecia is a Roman idea. The Romans had a homelands. The Greeks had Greek throats to cut.
What does the Hellenistic era have to do with the Mycenaean era? And what do either have to do with EL's joke?
Jack Crow@4:36 - thanks for exegesising Enron.
I see your point, but as someone who actually read Carl Darling Buck's "Introduction to the Study of the Greek Dialects" for recreation, you have to understand that I tend to view such matters through a philological lens.
Plus - if the Greeks didn't have a conception of "Greekness", no matter how conveniently invoked or revoked, from whence the well-known (folk?)- etymology of "barbaros" ?
Jack - while true of the Mycenaean era, I do think a 'Greek culture' coalesced in the Classical age with the Athenian empire & continued to develop with the Alexandrian empire.
"And what do either have to do with EL's joke?"
No no - that's the wrong attitude. The reason I reside in the audience chez IOZ is not just because of the headliner - it's the way the house band riffs on whatever he or another follower lays down.
Last thing anyone should want to do is linearize this place ... shit, you'd wind up with another freakin' Salon, fer crissakes ...
Further, I would argue that the culture that coalesced from roughly 800-400 bce in Greece is extremely coherent - far more so than one finds in equivalent cultures in that period.
lucid alone has looked on beauty bare ...
EL - no, I just focused on a lot classics for my MA and wrote my MA thesis on early Greek religion, secular humanism and direct democracy... And was working on a dissertation basically blaming everything bad in the universe on Plato before I quit academe.
But there was Buttseks, there was a Pan Hellenic culture of Buttseks. I'm sure I saw some on a pornographic amphora..
"basically blaming everything bad in the universe on Plato before I quit academe"
You know - that's funny - first time I hit the Republic it was in the original for 2nd semester Greek so of course I got the usual take of the usual kind of prof.
And then as a work-study student in the library, I happened to shelve Beard's revisionist work on the actual politico-economic dispute between Plato and the Sophists (well before Izzy's) and you can imagine how it opened the eyes of a young Red Diaper baby ...
... although I have to say that reading the revisionists also saddened me ... I always hated the Sophists as the original BBD&O (will pitch anything for the right price), and only reluctantly came to see that Plato was merely Socrates' Leni Riefenstahl ...
... just as it pains me to admit that the roots of NC's "Cartesian Linguistics" can of course be found in Plato, not Aristotle ...
Justin finds it baffling that I can hold an opinion held by just about everyone. Not just the tea party rabble, either -- the biologists and forsenic anthropologists, not to mention its obvious "lying eyes" visibility in elite athletics. But it is strongly denied by cultural anthopologists! Quelle surprise!
Meanwhile, I find it perfectly explicable that he is baffled: his opinion is the overt opinion of the powers-that-be: the white progressive elite, safe in their clean and leafy suburbs with "good schools". Is this belief be fashionable? I think it is!
Could a false idea somehow be widely professed in spite of opposing scientific consensus? Simply if the reigning elite teaches it in its monopoly school system, all higher education, and all other public discourse of any note? No, of course not! Here's your blue pill -- believe whatever you want to believe.
Interesting - are you talking about Charles Beard? I'd like to check it out.
My primary locus of study was epistemology, it's relationship to ontology and identity and resultant socio-politico orders envisioned thereof - so I didn't wander as much into the economic aspects of their disputes [interestingly enough, this has always been my approach to Marx as well].
Anyhow, I've always avoided Chomsky's linguistics for exactly that reason.
EL,
Perhaps we're whistling past each other. "Greekness" is one thing, and I've no argument with the claim. "Homeland" is quite another. The Eleni weren't marching around worrying their version of the vaterland or the rodina.
Lucid,
The Alexandrian pan-hellenism was a reaction to Alexander's refusal to be a good greek, no? That is was his adoption of so many Persian forms which caused contemporary opponents and later sophs to assert what never was as a reaction to what did not yet exist.
Anyway - the 2500 years claim rings false. By the time the Greeks were debased enough to think of the peninsula as a home, it was being run by the same Romans who'd already lobbed off a number of their more far flung parts.
So my contention, thin and unconcerned as it is, is that we see the Helenes as the Romans did.
JC@5:31 - fair 'nuff ... perhaps it's not correct to equate geography and ethnography in all contexts ... I was merely trying to contrast the situation of the Jews throughout the Diaspora with that of a bunch of people who have spoken the same language and lived in the same general vicinity for a long time ...
We could probably go round and round on "the diaspora," EL. I find Sand convincing.
lucid - I've been vainly searching for a ref to the "Beard" volume and can't find it ... so I'm forced to conclude the book I'm thinking of wasn't by Beard (I know it wasn't Popper's "Open Society") ... in any event ... it was by someone claiming that Plato was a member of an elite reacting in dismay to the rise of a newer class whose interests were championed by the Sophists ... kind of like the landed gentry reacting against the merchants in England ... I apologize for the red herring ...
I was just speculatin' about a hypothesis! I know I don't know nothin'!
to JC@5:48 -
"If you see IOZ on the road, kill him" (for starting this damn thread ... I knew I shouldn't have entered it ...)
Anyway - I think one can deny the right of Israel to exist and simultaneously not deny the truth of a "Diaspora" without having to suffer too much cognitive dissonance ... this (matrilineal) Jew certainly can ...
... besides, what are we to make of young Stephen if Joyce was sold a bill of goods ... ?
You might read Gilad Atzmon's new book to answer that one. Just don't tell anyone or they'll be mean to you.
to demize@6:04 ... before Gilad Atzmon there was Chomsky and "l'affaire Faurisson" ... more than likely the affair that cost him the Nobel Peace Prize ...
Jack - I can see that standpoint & perhaps it dovetails nicely with your earlier statement:
That these conclusions about race, nation and ethnicity arose in Germany, matured in German culture, and spread with the dissemination of German rationalism should be obvious, at the minimum. So much so, that we have arrived at the historical moment of a colonial Israel ripe with Germanic race laws and ideas about national ethnicity.
I'm not entirely sure that one needs the brush of 19th century German nationalism [or the many conceits it shares with Rome] to polish a homeland. Hell, if anything, modern nationalism itself comes directly from Republic book VII. That the manner in which the Greeks might have understood 'Greece' differs substantially from the manner in which modern Jews understand 'Israel' precludes neither a coherent culture nor notions of 'Greece', or 'Athens', or a loose 'pan-homerism'.
Speaking of the situation of the Jews throughout the Diaspora, I just recently learned that there are different Sephardic and Ashkenazic definitions of kosher for Passover.
Speaking of ritual food, I'm reminded of a difference in doctrine between the Church of Rome and the Church of England - transubstantiation compared to consubstantiation.
And it was Joyce who wrote "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."
EL,
Was raised Catholic by assimilants to a Northeastern Little Italy. We share a storyline, perhaps.
I just think Sand is convincing in his argument that there was no Roman eviction of Jews, en masse, after Titus son of Vespasian or Bar Kochba. The Diaspora is mythos, if not myth. What made Jews international, perhaps before there were even nations proper, was conversion.
And before him Spinoza, and before him Jesus of Nazareth, who I'm also sure would have lost the prize to Obama or Kissenger. But I don't trust Chomsky's analysis of Palestine,Israel. I'm not sure if I can fully enunciate that mistrust.
EL - no worries. That is a very common modern strain. Even more mainstream classicists like Vlastos clearly delineate the aristocratic stance within Plato, though he frames it as Plato's reaction to the execution of Socrates. I actually think it comes straight from Socrates myself.
Sorry that was in response to EL. @6:08
"What made Jews international, perhaps before there were even nations proper, was conversion."
To "conversion", I would add "virtual assimilation" ...
But that's a quiblle, in general I think we agree on more than that on which we disagree ... for example, I consider Ezra to be the most important book of the "Bible" because it tells of the time when Jews, for whatever reason, apparently decided not to assimilate into non-existence (as they actually should have, and done the world a favor) but to stage a "return" ...
I have often wondered about the actual facts behind Ezra .. cui bono?
Would that we now could be discussing "Judaism" as we would discuss Zoroastrians or the Arians ...
Jack - further there is no archaeological evidence of an Egyptian enslavement, so the entire tale of a promised land is most likely an attempt to unite disparate roaming tribes into a unit for the mutual defense of property...
demize - I think I know whereof your distrust of NC arises ... my grandmother left a Hasidic home in Poland, worked in Marseilles for passage to Palestine, and wound up working on Ben Gurion's original kibbutz before she left for the US pre-WWI because word was out that the Turks were gonna side with Germans and it was gonna be "pogroms all over again" ... because that history is part of my roots, I have a soft spot for the notion of "Labor Zionism" until I remember what the second defining word of that notion is ... I think NC suffers from something similar ... remember that his political (as well as theoretical) mentor was Zellig Harris ...
EL. Yes I think that's exactly it. That and a level of obsfuscation when dealing with issues such as BDS. leave me to conclude that there is a tribalism in operation. I mean he is far too brilliant and careful not to notice these inconsistentcies he makes. From what I understand he was a Kibbutznik for a time.
Emergency Committee for Israel? i instinctively trust any organization run by the likes of neo-Cromwellite Gary Bauer and legacy asshole Bill Kristol (aka "Dan Quayle's Brain," "Midge Decter's Penis," ad nauseam ..).
And yet genuine anti-semitism still bubbles up here and there, even in the most unlikely of places.
In the first comment of this thread, for instance, TGGP quotes from "Lucifer's Lexicon" by LA Rollins (1987). Nor is this the first time he's done this.
Here are some of the book's other hilarious entries. For some reason TGGP chose not to quote these:
Holocaust, the, n. A smoke screen obscuring the atrocities of the Allies and the Israelis. The insurance fraud of the century. A cheap cinematic trick; a filmflam; the Hollywoodcaust; a soap opera.
Zionist Propaganda, n. Hebrew-National Baloney.
Rollins also used to work at the Institute for Historical Review, that notorious gang of holocaust-deniers.
805 troll trolls with troll.
Capt'n Obvious
I'm pretty sure that's a qoute by Uri Avnery there sportsfan.
@TGGP Yeah, why did you neglect to share EVERY QOUTE IN THE BOOK??
"But I don't trust Chomsky's analysis of Palestine,Israel. I'm not sure if I can fully enunciate that mistrust."
Chomsky, was self-admittedly a Zionist, and more circumspectly remains a Zionist, if you ask me. A Zionist with a conscience, but a Zionist. This is why he continues to emphasize the "two-state solution" when everyone can see that it's a dead letter, even if most pertinent governments largely fail to recognize it.
Uh ohs, they got NAOMI KLEIN.
Who is IOZ?
I'm dissapointed in Leonard for not yet linking to Cochran & Harpending's Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence. In their view, Tay-Sachs and some related disorders are linked to "overclocking" that developed during the (relatively) recent medieval period.
There's not just other definitions in Lucifer's Lexicon, in the republished edition of "The Myth of Natural Rights and Other Essays" (which contains LL, as well as a preface for the titular essay written by yours' truly) there are three essays on holocaust denial. The first is on whether it's a legitimate subject at all, the second is a criticism of various deniers, and the third is criticism of Michael Shermer's criticism of deniers. Rollins proclaims that after all his study on the issue he is an agnostic. I don't know if I believe him, but mostly I don't care. An occasional shared reader of my blog and IOZ' gives it a negative review here, where Rollins shows up in the comments to defend his work and mistype things.
mtraven's reference to Marc Hauser at the end of his review is humorous in light of later developments.
Great, now I'm more aggravated than usual reading that. So aggravated I will now travel back in time and misspell quote, twice *=<…
Oh, you can talk plenty about a criminal segment of the Italian population, the Italian mafia, and no one says anything ... and they shouldn't becoz by merely acknowledging the mafia exists does not vilify the entire Italian population ... but you can't ever, ever talk about the segment of the Jewish population that plays a VERY LARGE role in our criminal fucking banking system without being accused by many Jews of hating each and every Jew in the world.
The people that most zealously accuse others of being prejudice towards them are often the biggest bigots.
Tribalism is the highway to immorality.
Z
Nony 2:23... I think the point is that all myths are just that, myths.
Yup, gotta hand it to you, IOZ.
This sure is the thread that keeps on giving.
Shame on you.
If you ceased talking this spaghetti classicism, neither A nor B, we could then perhaps get on with it.
The person signing as Z has said something I agree with so much that I want to repeat it (slightly edited).
Oh, you can talk plenty about a criminal segment of the Italian population, the Italian mafia, and no one says anything ... and they shouldn't, because merely acknowledging the mafia exists does not vilify the entire Italian population ... but you can't ever, ever talk about the segment of the Jewish population that plays a VERY LARGE role in our criminal fucking banking system without being accused by many Jews of hating each and every Jew in the world.
The people that most zealously accuse others of being prejudiced towards them are often the biggest bigots.
Tribalism is the highway to immorality.
Z
2:23 AM
When I was learning about the different Sephardic and Ashkenazic definitions of kosher for passover, I also read that the differing sociohistorical experiences of the Sephardic and Ashkenazic communities gave rise to differing attitudes towards the non-Jewish communities they lived alongside - the Sephardim regarded their neighbors as equals, whereas the Ashkenazim saw them as inferior. See my quote from Joyce, supra.
The people that most zealously accuse others of being prejudiced towards them are often the biggest bigots.
Tribalism is the highway to immorality.
Yeah - why can't niggers, yids and spics learn to think of themselves as individuals?
2:23
What are you talking about? There's no such thing as the mafia, only legitimate Italian businessmen being harassed and scapegoated by the authorities and media.
Oh my GAWD, IOZ, I HAVE TO GO CAWL MY MUTHAAAAAA!!!!
I can't believe I didn't post a billion times. I'm gonna get back to moping. Oh, and nice homeland you've got here; we'll take it.
And Leonard can suck my high IQ, miscegenated dick.
I.Q. Test sketch about blacks written in a Jewish deli after eating a pastrami sandwich.
All this is lovely empirical evidence supporting the themes of Pat Buchanan's new book. The Balkanizing of the American Mind? Me, I'm nostalgic. I just wish the CNT and the UGT had stopped fighting long enough to see that the crypto-fascist POUM was the real threat (aside from the REAL threat).
to anon@4:17
Are you The Remora?
"The Jewish interpretation of the world followed upon the Christian, just as the Christian one followed Roman and Greek culture. So now Jewish analyses, images, definitions of art, science, sociology, literature, politics, the information media, dominate. Marx and Freud are the pillars that mark the road from East to West. Neither are imaginable without Jewishness. Their systems are defined by it. The axis USA-Israel guarantees the parameters. That is the way people think now, the way they feel, act and disseminate information. We live in the Jewish epoch of European cultural history. And we can only wait, at the pinnacle of our technological power, for our last judgment at the edge of the apocalypse…. So that's the way it looks, for all of us, suffocating in unprecedented technological prosperity, without spirit, without meaning... Those who want to have good careers go along with Jews and leftists and the race of superior men has been seduced, the land of poets and thinkers has become the fat booty of corruption, of business, of lazy comfort."
@ Leonard 11:37 Eat the smart.
No, no, no Leonard. It's Eat the smart's brains!
I grow weary of all this intellectual, cultural bullshit. It puts me in mind of Twisty Faster when she says:
Culture. Culture culture culture. I am sick and tired of culture. I am sick and tired of the chumpass motherfuckers who are trying to preserve culture because they think it’s sacred or something and they worship it. Culture’s not sacred. It’s guk growing in a petrie dish. A set of behaviors upon the successful assimilation of which a given individual is ruthlessly judged by her prejudiced and parochial peers.
Why would anybody want to get involved with that? Keep your culture offa me, freak!
Smart post admin
I hope to visit my blog and subscribe to me :)
Map of Ancient Greece and Ancient Greece Timeline
Post a Comment