It was only a matter of time, but the alacrity with which the usual reprobates leapt to tell us that The Elections in Egypt prove the need for Occupy Wall Street to join up with the Donk surprised even me. It's a silly bit of rhetoric: the "secular and liberal Egyptians", whom this particular Digby-manqué is eager to overcredit for the so-called Revolution, were out-organized at the ballot box by religious conservatives. These religious parties are some kind of Egyptian analog for American Republicans, or perhaps the American Tea Party, which is either synonymous with the Republican Party, or else is a group that captured the Republican Party via "participation", or else is a group that was co-opted into the Republican Party, although perhaps in the process of being co-opted it managed to exert some rightward political pressure on the Republicans. The writer is a little confused on the point. On the other side, par contre, Egypt's secular revolutionaries are like Occupy Wall Street, or like American liberals, and their failure to organize will repeat the failure of Egypt's irreligious revolutionaries to organize, although Occupy Wall Street is not so much encouraged to organize itself as it is to let itself be co-opted by the Democratic Party . . . like I said, a little confused.
61 comments:
dude, if ows doesn't organize for the ballot box, the islamist will take over here and then it'll all be sariah law.
(or wait, sariah was abe's wife, right? but i guess abe was a muslim.)
"We must all hang together, or we will surely hang the DJ." - Morrissey
(of note, #OWS is getting this from the right, too; vide Will Wilkinson here: http://bigthink.com/ideas/41309)
Oh, wow, I didn't read all the way through Wilkinson's post. Near the very, very bottom:
"This is a shift to argument (a), that our democracy is too broken to bother with. If true, (a) really does overthrow my argument. But really? There's no point in running for city council? For county recorder? For the state senate?"
WW gets points for intellectual honesty, at least.
IOZ FOR PROTHONOTARY in 2525!
Why is there a picture of Bigfoot taking a dump here?
I do like his Flavor Flav neckwear.
Takin a dump for the Time Being.
Follow the pepper spray cans
I'm glad we have Egyptian sociologist, historian, political economist and critical theorist David Atkins to explain to us why 2 factions prevailed over several others at the ballot in a time of major political and social tumult in Egypt.
I love it I love it I love it
It's easy to understand the sentiments of those who seek anti-organizational and apolitical solutions to America's problems, and who see the system as so hopelessly corrupted that it's barely worth voting much less becoming organizationally involved. But unfortunately, those who either refuse to or fall behind in participation in the process, like the liberals and secularists in Egypt, will find themselves at the mercy of those who do.
we seek to not be those people by not seeking to be those people! but those people are still those people! whatarewegunnadoooo
The Sokal Affair managed to have its way with the spot where the decayed corpse of irony used to lie; IOZ, this one thinks you've hired Larry, Moe and Curly to build a house on the same spot.
The drapes look great! Please, more!
IOZ WHY ARE YOU SO CYNICAL?! YOU ARE JUST SO CYNICAL!
I don't know how Wilkinson and Sanchez keep their heads afloat wearing such enormous intellectual blinders. When even the thoughtful become incredibly shallow its time to flee...
They probably have an idea, and are just playing the necessary role for cash.
Big smile, now. Would you like paper or plastic?
This really happened this morning
The phone rang and the educated black woman [or so I concluded from voice characteristics] on the other end asked for missus charley. Upon being told she was not available, she was willing to speak to me. She was asking for donations for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. We had a long (15 minutes, perhaps) and animated discussion, during which I quoted Will Rogers - "America has the best Congress that money can buy." I then went on to tell the very old story of the tourist asking the resident of Maine for directions (this predates GPS, of course) - he's told, "You cahn't get they-ah from hee-yah." I said, similarly, you can't get to a Congress that can't be bought from a Congress that CAN be bought - you need to go somewhere else first.
At the end we were able to agree on something - "God Bless America".
And have mercy on our souls, if any, I did NOT add.
This really happened, exactly as stated. Dialog has been edited for brevity.
Co-operate with Moderate Islamists --Qatari PM
Islamists are likely to represent the “next wave” of political power in the Arab world, Qatar’s prime minister said, as early indications from Egypt’s elections suggested the Muslim Brotherhood’s political arm was heading for victory.
But Hamad bin Jassim bin Jabr al-Thani, the influential prime minister who has led Qatar’s backing for revolutions across the Arab world, told the Financial Times the west should embrace the rise of Islamist movements.
“We shouldn’t fear them, let’s co-operate with them,” he said, insisting that moderate Islamists can assist in the fight against extremist ideology. “We should not have a problem with anyone who operates within the norms of international law, comes to power and fights terrorism,” he said.
Mr Hamad, who played a high-profile role in the Libya military intervention, spoke after the first of three phases in the Egypt’s election. Indications from the count in the nine Egyptian provinces where voting took place this week put Freedom and Justice, the new party set up by the Muslim Brotherhood after the January revolution, in the lead.
The size of its victory might surpass the 35 per cent to 40 per cent that the party itself had predicted.
Nour, a newly formed party of Salafi adherents to a more puritanical brand of Islam, also performed well, securing a bigger-than-expected share of the vote.
The Egyptian election follows victories by Islamist parties in polls in Morocco and Tunisia.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c2178ab8-1b71-11e1-8b11-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1fJDAuZgp
So OWSters should become Islamicist Democrats? Or Democratic Islamists? Fuck it, let's go bowling.
Now it's been 10,000 years,
Man has cried a billion tears,
For what, he never knew.
Now man's reign is through.
For the Time Being.
Atkins' piece on the Egyptian election is amusing right out of the gate: "[a]s expected, the Islamists have taken a commanding lead". As expected....the day before yesterday at least. Back in March/April the "experts" lined up to pooh-pooh warnings about precisely what has in fact occurred, prating that the Muslim Brotherhood was actually "moderate", and a small minority anyway, out of step like other Islamist factions with modern Egypt's diverse, cosmopolitan sensibility.
You'd think it would rankle experts like Fareed Zakaria that the "ignorant" and "paranoid" predictions of the likes of Glenn Beck proved accurate instead of their breathless Tahrir Square hopenchange pabulum. But like Atkins, they've segued neatly from "The M.B. and the Islamists are marginal" into "We suspected all along the Islamist would dominate, but regardless it doesn't matter that much, and let's try to change the focus anyway...."
An "educated black woman"? Well, I never!
it's starting again! was reminded just the other day how people sitting on their asses are who brought us Dubya twice and gave the republicans the house in '10. [yawn.] i suppose it fits the story told by party strategy, dems aim to get people to vote, while reps aim to stop people from voting, prolly cause both sides believe the people staying home would break dem in the voting booth.
but still.
i vote for anarchy.
Good Story, charles, but I must ask. What the fuck did race have to do with any of that? Just adding some "color?"
SpreadonBread asks "What the fuck did race have to do with any of that?"
I live in the US of A, and here race is a noticeable personal characteristic which is is sometimes part of the process of politics in general - in this particular conversation, race - and gender - did not become explicitly relevant
Age was potentially relevant - Carmen (as she identified herself) brought up the issue of the budget deficit, and I dredged up the fact that a decade ago, at the beginning of Bush the Younger's reign, there was a severe danger of federal budget surpluses, and even of paying off the national debt - fortunately, it was possible to avoid falling into that trap - Carmen's age would affect whether or not she remembered that personally
I personally am so non-racist that it doesn't bother me when someone mentions the racial identity of someone they interact with - I didn't think that the audience here would be bothered that I talked to a Negro on the phone - however, if you are, then let me assure that I didn't really KNOW this person was colored OR educated, I just concluded it on the basis of the way they talked
Is your use of the intensive "the fuck" about the fact that
a)I reached this conclusion about the racial identity of my interlocutor, or
b)I shared this conclusion?
To me, both seem normal and natural and not even blame-worthy. Sorry if you were offended.
One wonders whether the true non-racist would even note the 'race' of the other as a salient, memorable fact when it has no relational significance to the actual contents of the interaction.
I bet you start a lot of your stories with "I was talking to this woman who was white" and then never mention race again, too. I bet you even do it when you talk to your "negro friends." Keep on trucking, you so non-racist, you!
Or consider I was asking about a peculiarity of the way you phrased and how it might seem to others, and not making any assumptions about your intent. Perhaps, just maybe, I was speaking to the form. Maybe I was even doing it because I thought you were conveying something you didn't even mean to convey...had not fully considered how it might come across, in case you were to actually do something like that while talking to your "negro" friends.
Or, hey, maybe just do whatever makes you happy without a thought to how others perceive it, and blame them for getting upset instead of making a basically unnoticeable changes in your behavior to avoid conflict all together because, after all, this is the EWE ESS AYE.
How does Facebook and Twitter fit into the narrative? Cause I was told they like totally made the Egyptian revolution happen.
Yeah, it's the educated coloreds I find easiest to spot on the telephone, too. I think it's the notable absence of shucking and jiving.
Especially dig the feigned wide-eyed earnest reckoning, deliberately meaningless, and mealy-mouthed quality of race as a "personal characteristic" that plays some kind of unspecified but clearly important "part of the process of politics in general." YOU DON'T SAY. I think you mean that race is a construct best exploited by bigots a'scurred of the black menace/dangerous mud people demographic; also, black folk vote this way, white folk vote that way, amirite? White Voters Are From Mars, Uppity Darkies Need to be More Disenfranchised, I Suggest Some Reviving Some Shopworn Methods of Voter Registration Fraud Straight Outta the mid-80s Let's Make It About IDs This Time (Planet).
Also, charley, you're not doing much in the way of convincing the commentariat at large re you & yer sockpuppet EL as hearts that don't beat as one by crafting another similarly gut-busting riff off of nutella's pseudonym. Bit too obv., duckie.
Oh shiiiit. charley, is that you?
you people are putting a lot of emotional energy into denying that race is important in american politics
i used the terms "negro" and "colored" to annoy you, admittedly - but you seem to want to be annoyed
however, when i was small these were not impolite terms, and even now important institutions exist with the initials NAACP and UNCF
but carry on - if it seems your best course of action, that gives you some satisfaction, continue to hurl insults at me
Saurs writes black folk vote this way, white folk vote that way, amirite?
word
I didn't get that anyone was annoyed. The 'Negro' thing seemed kind of an obvious ploy, not really worth remarking on, like a kid chewing a sandwich and opening his mouth. Yes, Charley, that's very nice, would you like to get in the car now?
Anyhoo, nobody is denying 'race is unimportant in American politics.' (Nobody except, perhaps, the 'I personally am so non-racist that it doesn't bother me' guy.) In fact, I was saying the very same to my friend, Bob, who is a white person with an Associate's degree... or so I assume from the sound of his voice.
Well now that the blacks have figured out how to use the phone, what's next? Let's form unions to keep them out of our workplace!
So, Atkins' point is, essentially, that by tying itself so closely to conventional Republican politics, the Tea Party has seen its radical ideas filtered out, and has quickly lost both relevance and clout as it's been devoured by the Republican party.
Occupy Wall Street ought to do the same thing!
I think David Atkins may be a deeply confused individual.
you guys, i've known mistah charley a long time, on the internet! i don't believe for a minute he meant any of that racist subtext.
I was just jibbing in my remark.
Listen, Charley. You shouldn't mention race unless it's 100% necessary. Or gender. From now on, when you tell an anecdote, just refer to everyone as a "presumably carbon-based fellow-entity".
BTW, did you know you can tell how moral someone is by how easily they get offended on behalf of others? You obviously have a lot to learn about white people.
I am somehow able to not think for a minute that he meant any racist subtext and STILL believe that it was a dipshit thing to say. I'm marvelous that way.
Also, I'm REALLY offended. I was just talking to this Asian dude I know who sounded like an autodidact about where we should go for dinner when that came up.
To spend 15 minutes 'debating' with a Democratic Party fundraiser was very generous of Mr. C. I can never think of more than 2 minutes of conversational material in such cases. The story was not enhanced by the racial identity guess. Why didn't Mr. C. just ask if it interested him?
"Are you an educated black woman?" "Why are you fundraising for the Democrats? Are you going to support Obama in 2012? Why?"
No harm in the direct approach, is there?
There once was a candidate for VP who said during a debate "Who am I?
Why am I here?"
If we had more candidates of that caliber maybe running for office
would matter.
But we don't, for the Time Being.
So it doesn't, for the Time Being.
On Topic: Steve Austin better look the fuck out! Sass-squat redux, baby!
@Mistah C: Oh hell nah! Nah, you di'n't! What'd she call herself "Cawmin" but, like, just barely?
The only chance of "paying off the national debt" was if said Mr. Debt was in for a palm greasing. Maybe you meant that ironically, but a lot of Clintonistas actually believe that shit.
They were Negroes, Dude?
Love them powggles who hang at Casa IOZ.
Clearly, Political Correctness is superior to honesty.
Clearly.
Atkins: the strong showing of ultraconservative Islamists, called Salafis, many of whom see most popular entertainment as sinful and reject women’s participation in voting or public life.
Hm, you know, I bet they could make a strong showing in the US too.
I think the point can be illustrated by a zen koan.
A black guy with an axe breaks into house. A white guy is inside watching the Redneck Comedy tour. The ax wielder says, "If you say nigger, I'll cut your head off." To which the guy replies, "Get the hell out of here you nigger!" Whack, thump, roll.
The black guy breaks into another house. A white guy is inside watching Chris Rock. The black guy says, "If you say nigger, I'll cut your head off."
A moment passes, the white guy says nothing.
"OK, if you don't say nigger, I'll cut your head off."
A moment passes, the white guy still says nothing. Whack! thump, roll.
The ax wielder breaks into a third house. Inside, a man is sitting in his living room. The ax wielder says, "If you say nigger, I'll cut your head off, and if you don't say nigger, I'll cut your head off."
A moment passes in silence. The man sitting in his living room sips his tea. "You are going to have to pay for that door."
The ax-wielder says, "Pardon me, I've got the wrong house," and leaves.
Let's make it a contest!
Who HATES political INcorrectness more? Who wins?
Justin - I enjoyed the story, but you forgot to tell us what tv show the third guy was watching. Or maybe he was listening to NPR.
Here's one I like, slightly adapted for the present occasion:
The Other Side
One day a young Buddhist of color, on his journey home, comes to the banks of a wide river. Staring hopelessly at the great obstacle in front of him, he ponders for hours on just how to cross such a wide barrier. Just as he is about to give up his pursuit to continue his journey, he sees a great teacher on the other side of the river.
The young Buddhist of color yells over to the teacher, "Oh wise one, can you tell me how to get to the other side of this river"?
The teacher ponders for a moment, looks up and down the river and yells back, "My son, you are on the other side".
http://www.awakeblogger.com/2008/09/the-10-very-best-zen-stories/
Karl, from the way you think putting zero + minuscule thought into not being an asshole makes you some horrible PC NAZI. I can tell you're a high school educated person of Inuit decent just by the way you think that!
Thank you for the ironic demonstration of that which you complain about, Shit-on-Shingle!
Buddhist of color
mistahchuck feeds pablum by the spoonful to Shit-on-Shingle!
Charley, the point is that whatever was on television or the radio was irrelevant. I didn't forget, I didn't say it.
In other words, if you get it, then the correct revision that naturally occurs to you is not to add NPR to the last guy, but to take out the Chris Rock and Redneck comedy tour details out of the previous two accounts.
Hot damn are those coloreds and non-colored race traitors feisty. It's like you can't win no matter what you do!! Keepin' it real doesn't pay like it used to.
My woman doctor suggests I take leave from my cracker-run beaner-operated landscaping company and start listening to more Jew-funded WASP-approved NPR.
This is fun! My vagina is a Chinese adolescent male. Not the smart, slightly obnoxious, over-achieving kind, neither. More like a fuckin' Korean knock-off. Maybe I should hire a Brazilian swimsuit clotheshorse to shave it for me?
anne? Your thoughts? (Try to include something about gingers or fatties in your answer.)
NB that if you actually attempt to shave a vagina, it will bleed like a money-lender. They bleed if you prick them, right?
Someone forgot to turn of the Saurs again.
anne is now reading .. . she just left a comment on the next post .. /toast ..of ? / oh ..my name ?.. sau's, are you a tubby piece of ginger ?
Those poor sec'lar lib'ruls. Man, nobody likes those cats. Me included. Give me the Muslim Brotherhood any day.
Dear Friends.
This year, I'll be voting for candidates of the Marxist Islamofascist Party. Won't you join me?
In service to Hammer and Crescent,
Rocky Rococo
Archvillain
Americans reflexively force fit everything that happens in the universe into thier own model of reality.The real problem is that most people need this kind of absurdly simple (and wrong) narrative. It seems that Americans (and Europeans) these days, have forgotten almost everything they once knew, including how to think. There is no real analysis of whats happening to us, and no creation of a narrative that would describe our(downward) trajectory. There is no shortage of hacks coming up with all kinds of lunatic screeds and they are all competeing with each other "in the marketplace of ideas".In western civ these days, "the marketplace of ideas" is a bodeaga that only sells cigarettes, lottery tickets and the steel wool used in crack pipes.
How did thIs degerate into a racial political corectness snotfest?
Anyway I would have gone for the 'nigger' gusto straight up.
Capt'n Obvious
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